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Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

politico.com

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Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

#271

Post by yoyohello13 »

sarchertech wrote: post #226
yoyohello13 wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's the dissonance between what the data say and just looking around. I see far more homeless, friends and family are more stressed, life in general just feels harder with less opportunity. Then you have the data people saying "no your life is actually great." So why the dissonance? I don't think it's just social media brainwashing.

The reason we have data is because of all the biases that come with “just looking around”. Confirmation bias and selection bias are very powerful. I strongly dislike Donald Trump, and he has done some terrible things to our country. But my dislike of him also makes me more likely to notice the bad things happening around me. It happens with conservatives too. Ask my conservative family about how frequently men preten…

Yeah this seems right to me. Politics is so polarizing it's a guarantee that half the country is going to be pissed no matter who is in charge. Most of my family leans left, it's hard to stay positive when the leader of your country actively and proudly hates you while also making terrible policy decisions.

Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

#272

Post by petilon »

ninjahawk1 wrote: post #34

The U.S. does NOT have copyright protections on the data that AI models were and are trained on, it was mass theft. Now all of a sudden, the Chinese are stealing from the thieves and we’re supposed to care? No one cares, we just want cheaper AI models that are equally as powerful. They’re all thieves regardless.

> The U.S. does NOT have copyright protections on the data that AI models were and are trained on, it was mass theft.

Absolutely false. Courts have decided that it is fair use [1]. That makes sense. It should not be used to justify Chinese theft.

https://www.reuters.com/world/us-judge-approves-anthropics-1...

Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

#273

Post by paulddraper »

ninjahawk1 wrote: post #34

The U.S. does NOT have copyright protections on the data that AI models were and are trained on, it was mass theft. Now all of a sudden, the Chinese are stealing from the thieves and we’re supposed to care? No one cares, we just want cheaper AI models that are equally as powerful. They’re all thieves regardless.

You're trying to kidnap what I've rightfully stolen!

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x4cxcsa

Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

#274

Post by intrasight »

Lord-Jobo wrote: post #99
3eb7988a1663 wrote: post #28

If there were ever a sign I need to get mirroring, this is it. What are the best Chinese models on HuggingFace today? Bucket by ideal RAM: Text generation, image generation, TTS, etc

Specific use case is way too important for a list like that to be very helpful. I only know image gen well enough to use as an example, but style, resolution, inpainting, img2img or text2image, lora compatibility, etc. all lead to different “best” models. Even more complex for image2video, but there’s fewer models to choose from there at least.

Sanctions would cancel the whole business rationale for the Chinese government having/supporting open weight models. You can't commoditize your competitors with open-source if your product is blocked.

Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

#275

Post by FpUser »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #242
advael wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems pretty silly to answer a question about military intervention by insisting that the major instance of military intervention by a world power that's happened in the last year shouldn't be counted

> by insisting that the major instance of military intervention by a world power that's happened in the last year shouldn't be counted I’m not. I’m saying exempting that, we have an even field of conflict mongering. Counting Iran, the field is biased, but we have significant sampling-timing issues for something like “is there war.” China has violently annexed sovereign countries in the past decades. Its threats to do…

>"China has violently annexed sovereign countries in the past decades."

An outright lie. The only possible candidate is Tibet but it's former sovereignty is very questionable and not clear cut

Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

#276

Post by harshalizee »

petilon wrote: post #272
ninjahawk1 wrote: post #34

The U.S. does NOT have copyright protections on the data that AI models were and are trained on, it was mass theft. Now all of a sudden, the Chinese are stealing from the thieves and we’re supposed to care? No one cares, we just want cheaper AI models that are equally as powerful. They’re all thieves regardless.

> The U.S. does NOT have copyright protections on the data that AI models were and are trained on, it was mass theft. Absolutely false. Courts have decided that it is fair use [1]. That makes sense. It should not be used to justify Chinese theft. https://www.reuters.com/world/us-judge-approves-anthropics-1...

Why is it not fair use for the Chinese models if all they are doing is distilling these fair use models? According to the courts, AI model output is not copyrighted or eligible for copyright.

Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

#277

Post by barbazoo »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #262
nixon_why69 wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Iraq war? Venezuela raid? Libya? Syria? Afghanistan for 20 years? And that's just some of the higher visibility cases. If China had special forces deployed and conducting ops in random African countries it would be a massive aggression. When we do it, it doesn't even make the headlines.

> If China had special forces deployed and conducting ops in random African countries it would be a massive aggression It’s literally doing this across its maritime and mountain boundaries! It does cause outrage, albeit less so in mass media.

What's a good example you would say?

Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

#278

Post by troybetz »

gr_norm wrote: post #150
throwa356262 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Post this to https://old.reddit.com/r/DataHoarder

Login-walled for me. Is there a Reddit proxy like Nitter?

yes and its faster than new reddit and written in rust too btw

https://safereddit.com/r/datahoarder

Instances:

https://github.com/redlib-org/redlib-instances/blob/main/ins...

Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

#279

Post by glaslong »

jchw wrote: post #95
ninjahawk1 wrote: post #34

The U.S. does NOT have copyright protections on the data that AI models were and are trained on, it was mass theft. Now all of a sudden, the Chinese are stealing from the thieves and we’re supposed to care? No one cares, we just want cheaper AI models that are equally as powerful. They’re all thieves regardless.

Its even dumber when you consider AI model output was not considered copyrighted or eligible for copyright to begin with, as far as I know. How exactly would this even be "theft"?

I can't imagine Moonshot have found a way to completely bypass the subscription or api billing either. So those model outputs have been paid for! No theft of any kind!

At most they'd be getting more out of distributed use of subsidized plans and API than the ToS would prefer.

Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

#280

Post by arjie »

ch4s3 wrote: post #145
barbazoo wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe break down those numbers by income and you'll see that rich people are doing fine, everyone else not so much.

Incomes at the lowest quintile rose 47% from 2021 to 2024. That growth slowed in 2025, but outpaced the growth of higher income quintiles in the first few years post pandemic. Real median household income in 2024 was $83,730 which is the highest it has ever been, and that is the middle quintile.

This one has always made sense to me. If you think about circumstances which improve the bottom quintiles’ relative income so that they’re now making as much as the median (I.e. the curve flattens out through unprecedented prosperity for the poorest) then the middle and upper middle incomes will rightly conclude that they’re not relatively high income anymore.

Placing an arbitrary person on the curve at the right place will show their relative position on this.

There’s a reason a large amount of the complaints are things like “my DoorDash is so much more expensive” and “my insta cart bill is so much higher”.

In the ideal state for the text writing middle and upper middle class, the mostly video consuming lower classes make very little money and provide services for cheap.

One should expect that enriching the poor upsets those whose relative wealth/income is no longer as high as it used to be. I imagine we could test this by comparing p75, p90 to p10 and p50

For my part I am optimistic. So many things today are so much cheaper and better than they used to be. Looking forward to the future - with the one caveat that AI is the precipitous ridge we must walk.

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