Under what authority could he block access?
It's the rule based order america is the boss in. Essentially a mafia ruled country where rules are different for opponents.
"It's a big club and you aren't in it"
Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI
41–50 of 983 posts
Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI
#42> the US can “sanction” companies that engage in intellectual property theft. Peak hypocrisy, US AI companies can train on unlimited intellectual property with 0 rights to it, while Chinese AI companies have to explicitly get the rights to data that isn’t even copyrightable/copyrighted (since AI alone can’t copyright it).
US's court can enforce IPs. Didn't Antrhpic just agree to pay book authors billion for the recent lawsuit settlement?
Anthropic was asked to pay book authors because it trained on pirated downloaded books.
What about books and art where the author/artist does not authorise AI to train on it? They do happily train on it, ignoring their "ToS".
This is just double standards, a slap on the wrist to not worsen the situation with authors imo.
You could also say the Chinese companies are doing the same - they _do_ pay for their Anthropic subscriptions after all.
Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI
#43[flagged]
I think we are already quarter of century in. It started with reaction to 9/11 and only got worse since then. Damage was pretty much self-inflicted.
Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI
#44I think we should shut it off. It would force US companies to build open models.
Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI
#45Illegal numbers 2: Electric Trumpaloo
Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI
#46If there were ever a sign I need to get mirroring, this is it. What are the best Chinese models on HuggingFace today? Bucket by ideal RAM: Text generation, image generation, TTS, etc
Alibaba Cloud runs ModelScope, which is like Hugging Face but based in China:
- Source code (ironically on GitHub): https://github.com/modelscope/modelscope
It's not limited to Alibaba's Qwen. All of the other major Chinese ones are on there (GLM, DeepSeek, Kimi, etc.) as well as finetunes and quantizations of the non-Chinese ones.
Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI
#47[flagged]
Are we not there yet?
US real median household income has been steadily rising[1] for the last 40+ years. Life expectancy is rising again after dipping and plateauing for a few years. Employment numbers are pretty good given the macro headwinds. The US forms ~5.9 million new businesses per year which vastly out paces the EU.
The US isn't without problems, but we're doing OK.
[1] https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEHOINUSA672N
It's incredible that not a single person replying negatively has included a single piece of data.
Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI
#48> the US can “sanction” companies that engage in intellectual property theft. Peak hypocrisy, US AI companies can train on unlimited intellectual property with 0 rights to it, while Chinese AI companies have to explicitly get the rights to data that isn’t even copyrightable/copyrighted (since AI alone can’t copyright it).
US's court can enforce IPs. Didn't Antrhpic just agree to pay book authors billion for the recent lawsuit settlement?
The settlement doesn't cover the actual training on copy written material
Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI
#49Don't model weights fall under free speech?
Yes, in theory, we've been through this rodeo before in the 90s. Bernstein vs. US ruled that source code is expressive speech. It's being challenged though, the court could consider weights as machine data (non-expressive operational artifacts, not human communication).
the US could also pull the functional harm argument in the same way the government uses it to regulate some protected speech (like the whole debacle over DeCSS)
Even if the free speech argument prevails, the US GOV can still use sanctions to prevent the public clouds from hosting any foreign open weight models, and prohibit US based sites from distributing the weights. It'll remain functionally legal for individuals (or at least, unenforceable) but in practice, you'll need to pirate the weights they won't be available from any US based site or provider and would be illegal for businesses to use, even if its a gray area, the liability will mean businesses won't touch them.
Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI
#50The U.S. does NOT have copyright protections on the data that AI models were and are trained on, it was mass theft. Now all of a sudden, the Chinese are stealing from the thieves and we’re supposed to care? No one cares, we just want cheaper AI models that are equally as powerful. They’re all thieves regardless.
I do care.
It's an unfortunate truth that we're exiting a global peace era and entering one of (hopefully just...) implied conflict. Our biggest geopolitical rival that's been threatening a hot war also distilling the things we build is not a good thing.
Trump is a huge self-own by our electorate sadly, but being concerned about a conflict between China and the US is a very bi-partisan concern for good reason.