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Who's afraid of Chinese models?

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Re: Who's afraid of Chinese models?

#941

Post by hetman »

mynameisbilly wrote: post #851
hetman wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would it be a problem that they're Chinese? It's a problem because their country is ruled by an authoritarian regime. The West, by contrast, doesn't have a singular arbiter of truth, it has a plurality of perspectives (as much as certain interest groups would really rather that was not the case). It's not perfect, but those of us who have memories of living under authoritarian regimes can tell you there's no comp…

The United States has propped up some pretty horrific, murderous, bloodthirsty regimes over the past century to ensure they maintain a proxy presence across the globe. If supporting or engaging in an "authoritarian" regime is your litmus test, then the United States fails resoundingly.

Guess what you can do in the US and can't do in China? Talk about their respective atrocities. You've missed the point entirely as it pertains to AI if you thought my litmus test was about having the most moral government. It was about that government's ability to censor information.

Re: Who's afraid of Chinese models?

#942

Post by hetman »

inigyou wrote: post #518
hetman wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would it be a problem that they're Chinese? It's a problem because their country is ruled by an authoritarian regime. The West, by contrast, doesn't have a singular arbiter of truth, it has a plurality of perspectives (as much as certain interest groups would really rather that was not the case). It's not perfect, but those of us who have memories of living under authoritarian regimes can tell you there's no comp…

If being ruled by an authoritarian regime is the problem, then wouldn't both Chinese and American models be problematic? European models too, if they had any.

I don't think you'll understand what authoritarian means until you try moving to China and then criticising their government. For those of us who have lived under authoritarian regimes, it's an absolute travesty to see how diluted the meaning of this term has become.

Re: Who's afraid of Chinese models?

#943

Post by hetman »

podgorniy wrote: post #461
hetman wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would it be a problem that they're Chinese? It's a problem because their country is ruled by an authoritarian regime. The West, by contrast, doesn't have a singular arbiter of truth, it has a plurality of perspectives (as much as certain interest groups would really rather that was not the case). It's not perfect, but those of us who have memories of living under authoritarian regimes can tell you there's no comp…

> It's a problem because their country is ruled by an authoritarian regime Hey, have you seeing what trump does with your (presumably) country? Maybe wars? Maybe market manipulation? Mayde pedo right covering on the government level? Maybe bubbles and threats to EU? What an ignorance. You live with old stories, not the current state of the world...

So you're telling me Trump has direct control over the topics and conclusions allowed into AI models built by Western companies? I don't think your off topic whataboutism has really helped dispel any ignorance in the world.

Re: Who's afraid of Chinese models?

#944

Post by randyrand »

Partial summary: By giving away weights for free, China can drive the price of white collar labor towards zero which is what the USA economy is built on. China which is built on manufacturing will not be as affected.

Re: Who's afraid of Chinese models?

#945

Post by girvo »

aa-jv wrote: post #908
girvo wrote: post #569

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone from neither the US nor China, neither are altruistic and both have horrible histories, both meddle in my country’s affairs, and neither have my interests at heart. China’s got plenty of blood on its hands, pretending otherwise is silly. America does, too. It’s quite easy for me to condemn both their governments and trust neither.

The USA has far more innocent blood on its hands, this century , than any other nation state. And only nationalist/racists ignore the fact that China has lifted a billion people out of poverty during the same period that the USA and its allies have destroyed countless other sovereign nations and left 36 million refugees from their illegal wars for the world to deal with... China has a lot, lot better record on human…

If you want to talk about this century and human rights, then you better look inwards. You're obviously a nationalist yourself, accusation in a mirror as is typical.

Re: Who's afraid of Chinese models?

#946

Post by sarchertech »

nixon_why69 wrote: post #940
sarchertech wrote: post #933

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but its a little rich to hear from westerners, who emit more CO2 per person, that the Chinese 1. Most western countries don’t emit more per capita than China. 2. I’m not saying what Xi should or shouldn’t do. I’m telling that what he is doing indicates that he doesn’t believe climate change is an existential threat.

I also would like the Chinese to do more, but as an American waving broadly at our political consensus, I have a hard time pointing fingers. At least they're doing something.

I’m not making any argument about what China should do. I’m saying that the argument that China is ruled by an enlightened despot who “believes in science” and believes in the existential risk of climate change is bullshit.

Re: Who's afraid of Chinese models?

#947

Post by herbst »

burnerRhodov3 wrote: post #939
herbst wrote: post #904

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you post content like this you likely to get refused entering the US. I realize it doesn't apply to US citizens but it's also not like everyone can say what they want and get away with it.

Refusing entry is not the same as being made to disappear.

Still not "normal" if you come from a more free place where things like this really don't matter at all.

Re: Who's afraid of Chinese models?

#948

Post by throw1234567891 »

theptip wrote: post #937
throw1234567891 wrote: post #920

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Neither Anthropic nor OpenAI are regulated in the "regulated business" meaning.

I count being incorporated in Delaware as a high baseline level of regulation vs. random Chinese API providers.

From where I sit, it could be incorporated in Mauritius.

Re: Who's afraid of Chinese models?

#949

Post by burnerRhodov3 »

herbst wrote: post #947
burnerRhodov3 wrote: post #939

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Refusing entry is not the same as being made to disappear.

Still not "normal" if you come from a more free place where things like this really don't matter at all.

You are taking this completely out of context, and if the OP had posted the above on x, or facebook they would not be denied entry. Threatening statements, glorifying violence, or ties to flagged groups is what gets you denied entry. And honestly, I agree with that.

If you are screaming death to america on your socials... I don't think i want you in America.

Re: Who's afraid of Chinese models?

#950

Post by urbushey »

kinj28 wrote: post #253

I am afraid — if Chinese models go mainstream it has a clear way of pushing its narrative way beyond its otherwise borders. More like a Trojan horse it is for the Chinese. Here is a quick example of how Chinese deepseeks agent works kn its underlying model) when asked a tough question https://x.com/jinen83/status/2079406993979383902?s=46&t=D7hQ...

As is made obvious in this demo, this is how the API serving a specific Chinese open-weight model works. What happens when you serve it on your own infrastructure?
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