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Quality non-fiction books are the antithesis of AI slop

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Re: Quality non-fiction books are the antithesis of AI slop

#221

Post by brazzy »

EGG_CREAM wrote: post #212
exe34 wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> while an AI has only "data that mirrors" experiences. True for a lot of current AI. With more robotic bodies, loads more access to cameras/audio/satellite/science measurements, an AI can have original experience on a level that can only be described as god-like compared to humans.

If it has a subjective viewpoint, i.e. sentience. Otherwise it still doesn’t actually experience any of those things, and can’t tell actually you what it’s like to experience those things. It can give you the data readings though.

Wouldn't it be funny if they missing thing is actually the body, and having one to give the subjective viewpoint something to center on directly leads to emerging sentience?

Though I think there's at least one more important thing missing, namely the ability to form memories - to incorporate recent context into the model's weights. I don't think it's a coincidence that this is a very complex process in humans as well (involving sleep and dreams as neccessary mechanisms).

Re: Quality non-fiction books are the antithesis of AI slop

#222

Post by JKCalhoun »

keiferski wrote: post #208
jackbrookes wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> LLMs are really only capable of combining different things into output > The magic and absurdity of life is a necessary thing to create such works. These two points seem slightly conflicting. Why if a human is truly more creative than AI, must it experience "the magic and absurdity of life" if it can be creative without "combining things into output"? Is a creative human then just not splicing and recombining their…

Is a creative human then just not splicing and recombining their experiences into their creative output? No, they aren't. I'm not sure why it's such a popular narrative that all art is just some kind of recombination of existing things; it's not. Actual lived experiences are unique and impact what is created. Novels written by people in post-Revolutionary France are not the same as novels written by post-WW1 France.…

"I'm not sure why it's such a popular narrative that all art is just some kind of recombination of existing things; it's not."

I would like to see art that was "created in a vacuum" so to speak. I am not aware of any. A first time poet who had never read any poetry or prose or heard a tale told? A painter who had been blind since birth and just handed a canvas, oils?

(To be pedantic, the person you quoted said art was recombining their experiences which you took as existing things.)

Re: Quality non-fiction books are the antithesis of AI slop

#223

Post by card_zero »

keiferski wrote: post #208
jackbrookes wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> LLMs are really only capable of combining different things into output > The magic and absurdity of life is a necessary thing to create such works. These two points seem slightly conflicting. Why if a human is truly more creative than AI, must it experience "the magic and absurdity of life" if it can be creative without "combining things into output"? Is a creative human then just not splicing and recombining their…

Is a creative human then just not splicing and recombining their experiences into their creative output? No, they aren't. I'm not sure why it's such a popular narrative that all art is just some kind of recombination of existing things; it's not. Actual lived experiences are unique and impact what is created. Novels written by people in post-Revolutionary France are not the same as novels written by post-WW1 France.…

It's often said that creativity involves reuse because that's clearly part of the process. It's like a warning against another narrative, where a reclusive genius outputs great works made from scratch, without being part of culture. Yet there's some truth to both. The thing is to be inspired by the culture and then be defiantly original and work away stubbornly in private and also talk to your peers and your audience. It reminds me of how we used to play as kids: oh you're doing that thing? I'm gonna do that thing too ... when you see the big reveal, you're gonna be very impressed! I'm doing it differently! Look at how I'm doing your thing that you came up with!

Re: Quality non-fiction books are the antithesis of AI slop

#224

Post by keiferski »

rahimnathwani wrote: post #217
keiferski wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It can provide a description. Not an actual answer of what it feels like. I can't keep repeating myself.

It can provide an actual answer of what it feels like. If I've understood you correctly, your objection is that this description is second hand, rather than being a description of the model's own feelings. Like if I write a description of what it's like being a soldier in a war zone, despite never having been a soldier and never having been in a war zone. Perhaps I can write something plausible if I've read enough an…

No, it can't, and I think you still don't understand my comments. I don't know if I'm being unclear, but I've repeated the same point multiple times now.

Like if I write a description of what it's like being a soldier in a war zone, despite never having been a soldier and never having been in a war zone. Perhaps I can write something plausible if I've read enough and use my imagination.

This is not an answer of what it feels like to be a soldier in a war zone. It is your guess. You do not know, you are imagining. It may be "plausible" for a novel, but that is not what we are talking about.

snakeboy (whose commend started this subthread) seems to claim that having real experiences (not just having learned of others' experiences through reading) is a prerequisite to creating something 'truly original'.

It would seem to imply that if you are creating something merely by reading others' work and synthesizing it, and then rearranging it into something else, all without actually using your own novel experience – then yes, it is not truly original. It is like writing a book about living in New York City by reading books about living in New York City. Your work is second-hand by definition.

Re: Quality non-fiction books are the antithesis of AI slop

#225

Post by cyanydeez »

Mtinie wrote: post #23
cyanydeez wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

those people will also start adopting the AIsm and will become indistinguishable.

AI adopted humanisms, we just weren’t used to seeing them at the same scale we do today. Diversity of writing styles was part of that, but I’d point to vernacular exposure as the larger component. We’re going to go through a period where we try to adapt to a form of “Universal English” for those of us who read primarily English writing. Other languages’ readers may be experiencing the same dissonance when they come a…

you're missing the point: the prevelance of AIsm language is spreading to people; I'm well aware it came from people.

All these HN posts with "stop with the LLM generated garbage" will slowly fade away because both people and LLMs will talk in a similar format and will be inured to the the distinguishing feature.

Certainly "humans" will keep carving out distinguishing characteristics, but just like "corporate speak" is a thing, AIsm will be a thing.

That's how language spreads.

Re: Quality non-fiction books are the antithesis of AI slop

#226

Post by rahimnathwani »

keiferski wrote: post #224
rahimnathwani wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It can provide an actual answer of what it feels like. If I've understood you correctly, your objection is that this description is second hand, rather than being a description of the model's own feelings. Like if I write a description of what it's like being a soldier in a war zone, despite never having been a soldier and never having been in a war zone. Perhaps I can write something plausible if I've read enough an…

No, it can't, and I think you still don't understand my comments. I don't know if I'm being unclear, but I've repeated the same point multiple times now. Like if I write a description of what it's like being a soldier in a war zone, despite never having been a soldier and never having been in a war zone. Perhaps I can write something plausible if I've read enough and use my imagination. This is not an answer of what…

Would you consider 'Memoirs of a Geisha' (by Arthur Golden, who was never a geisha) to be 'truly original'?

Re: Quality non-fiction books are the antithesis of AI slop

#227

Post by diego_moita »

gwbas1c wrote: post #202
diego_moita wrote: post #196

When I see lists like this I am surprised that they always live out school textbooks. School textbooks are the kind of books that have the very precise purpose of giving you a foundation and roadmap to explore and understand a whole field of knowledge. And they're an industry that has been improving them on successive iterations to produce highly organized, comprehensive and accessible reading material through years.

School textbooks also have a lot of bias, and may oversimplify issues in ways that are necessary with children, but lead to longing misconceptions. IE: Was the US Civil War fought over slavery or states' rights? Someone's answer may come from the biases of the textbooks they grew up with.

> School textbooks also have

For me the keyword in your comment is "also". What this word means to me is that, whatever faults textbooks might have, there is no alternative solution. They replicate a problem that all books have.

However, within the domain of textbooks, you still might find good solutions for these bias. These bias are mostly within history and social sciences and good and reputable Universities are renowned for publishing books in these domains that are quite balanced, comprehensive, deep and rigorous. Oxford and Cambridge are the 2 best examples that come to my mind. The U.S. has good Universities too, but after their government declared a war on science and knowledge I'd be carefull before trusting these universities.

Re: Quality non-fiction books are the antithesis of AI slop

#228

Post by JKCalhoun »

whilenot-dev wrote: post #176
jackbrookes wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> LLMs are really only capable of combining different things into output > The magic and absurdity of life is a necessary thing to create such works. These two points seem slightly conflicting. Why if a human is truly more creative than AI, must it experience "the magic and absurdity of life" if it can be creative without "combining things into output"? Is a creative human then just not splicing and recombining their…

I think you're just neglecting the fact that LLMs only exist in the virtual world, whereas we're interacting with a world that's richer and has much more to offer. The virtual world is still just a mere subset of our world, but whether we want to perceive it as such is up to each individual. It certainly feels like you're conflating digital with analog, and a digital signal can still only approximate an analog one. I…

"…LLMs only exist in the virtual world, whereas we're interacting with a world that's richer and has much more to offer."

I have a gamer friend that believes, having played 100's of 1st-person games, that he has had rich experiences because of it.

I reflect back on a day my family and I set out to hike through Arches National Park (still a Monument at the time, I believe) and the heat was such that my oldest daughter seemed in danger of going into runaway heat exhaustion. I began to panic as we were so far along on the hike already that even returning to where we parked seemed to pose danger for her.

There was little to no "coverage" (shade) along the trail and the heat and sun were intense that day—we had passed almost nothing. Finding the smallest of bushes to provide minimal shade for her, I scouted ahead on the trail to look for some kind of larger area where there would be enough shade, perhaps a breeze even, to allow her to bring her core body temperature back down.

Fortunately I found just that. (And it turned out that, in the news later, two hikers within a few hundred miles of us had in fact died that day as it was a record heat wave for the area.)

I think somehow that me and my daughters experiences that day, when actual death was perhaps on the table, was something a "virtual environment" can never really offer.

Re: Quality non-fiction books are the antithesis of AI slop

#229

Post by sparklingmango »

Can I make a feature request? I would love to be able to search by author. I recently started Caro's LBJ series (it's amazing so far) and I'm curious how many awards he's won. Anywho, I love non-fiction so I plan to visit this website often. Thank you and great work!
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