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Five US tech giants' hidden debts soar to $1.65T on opaque AI funding

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Re: Five US tech giants' hidden debts soar to $1.65T on opaque AI funding

#271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That gambling actually led to people getting those homes. The people losing them was the correction. Well, yes but there is a distinction between "led to" vs "losing them". The first is indirect, the second is not. You could expand that as "That gambling by banks offering these risky mortgages to unsuspecting people, actually led to people getting those homes. When the banks who did this did not bear the costs of t…

Yes, the issue with too big to fail is that it can equivalently be rephrased as too big to learn. And this just came out: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2026-07-19/how-wall-... Sound familiar?

> the issue with too big to fail is that it can equivalently be rephrased as too big to learn.

it is certainly phrased that way, i.e. "There Is No Alternative (1) to bailing the banks out, we can't just let them fail - all their employees will be jobless tomorrow!".

It's not true though, there are plenty of ways to inflict non-lethal financial penalties on a bank to help them learn better, or take them under governance in whole or in part (2) for orderly disposal.

But it has to be politically feasible. Which is harder when the ordinary voters aren't the ones that have the most influence over outcomes.

1) AKA "TINA", "The true meaning of TINA isn’t “No alternative is possible,” but rather, “Stop trying to think of an alternative.”"

2) https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-42184373

Re: Five US tech giants' hidden debts soar to $1.65T on opaque AI funding

#272
post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And, as I pointed out elsewhere, the difference I was pointing out was an economic difference. You keep on ignoring that fact and thinking I'm talking about ethics, but I'm not. I'm saying the difference is between spending trillions on training from raw data vs. spending billions on distilling that trained-from-raw-data model.

> And, as I pointed out elsewhere, the difference I was pointing out was an economic difference. You keep on ignoring that fact and thinking I'm talking about ethics, but I'm not. I am talking about money now; > . I'm saying the difference is between spending trillions on training from raw data vs. spending billions on distilling that trained-from-raw-data model. Firstly, they didn't spend trillions on training. I am…

> Firstly, they didn't spend trillions on training.

Then please argue with the guy who said they did, the guy who goes by richardw and whose comment I was responding to in the first place. He's the one who said "If the US companies need trillions to barely beat Chinese companies spending billions, despite a multi year head start..." and, to the best of my knowledge, you haven't replied to him at all. Instead, you have consistently replied to me, arguing points I'm not discussing, not TRYING to discuss, and arguing with me about points that somebody else made. As I told you in a different comment, PLEASE read more carefully in the future.

I am sick and tired of talking about this by now. I no longer care if you have a good point or not, you have exhausted my supply of good will. Good bye. Feel free to have the last word, you're the only one who cares by now.

Re: Five US tech giants' hidden debts soar to $1.65T on opaque AI funding

#273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I must be living in a different universe. Where I am, people under 40 cannot afford to buy a house. This was certainly very different in the 80ies of 90ies.

I got mine at 34 and I'm not 40 just yet.

Good for you. You are also an outlier. It seems that there are a lot of people here who don't care as long as they are well off.

We also own a house, but I hate it that many people can't afford one. The system is broken.

Re: Five US tech giants' hidden debts soar to $1.65T on opaque AI funding

#274

Well technically they don’t own the debt, the SPVs that own the data centers do. The giants just have long term commitments, but if shit hits the fan, it’s not the tech giants but the banks that lent the money to the SPVs that are at risk. This usually means all of us are on the hook.

"U.S. energy company Enron, though fundamentally different from tech giants, collapsed in 2001 due to off-balance-sheet debt hidden behind multiple shell companies. Even with proper accounting practices, an increase in joint ventures with low transparency could raise concerns in the market." Remember the vendor financing model which got a lot of technology companies into trouble at the same time? It took some years,…

If it's not done exactly like Enron it's not that kind of crime is it?

Re: Five US tech giants' hidden debts soar to $1.65T on opaque AI funding

#275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I got mine at 34 and I'm not 40 just yet.

Good for you. You are also an outlier. It seems that there are a lot of people here who don't care as long as they are well off. We also own a house, but I hate it that many people can't afford one. The system is broken.

Do you know what outlier means? Millennial home ownership rate is above 55%. It out paces Gen-X.

Re: Five US tech giants' hidden debts soar to $1.65T on opaque AI funding

#276
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Things have changed since 2009. It would be private credit which fails this time, not the banks. Private credit is not supposed to be systemically important and it's not supposed to need bailing out. Maybe we'll find out how true that is in practice.

Why would you think that? You think pension funds and governments didn't invest this time? Because that's the problem, governments either investing everyone's money directly (to fund their own loans and expenditures, or should I say fund their own expenses using pension money without admitting that's what they're doing to pensioners) or indirectly force investments (you'll find pension funds worldwide are legally onl…

Pensions will have exposure, probably through private credit, and probably in the range of 5% to 10% of assets. It's a lot, and it'll hurt people. But I'm not at all sure it is enough to require a bailout.

US government direct investment exposure is not likely to motivate a bailout in my view. The government might be motivated to bail people out for other reasons but not because they've lent too much.

Re: Five US tech giants' hidden debts soar to $1.65T on opaque AI funding

#277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it’s not the tech giants but the banks that lent the money to the SPVs that are at risk Banks have not been loaning AI money for some time. They hit all their regulatory safeguard limits so they can't keep loaning. Half the money being invested in AI is private capital. There is still systemic risk, because private capital is a shadow banking system and you don't know who will be affected when they go kaput. Your u…

Private capital isn’t some dark box, at least half of it is pension funds, endowment funds, insurance companies and non profits. Then there are private credit arms of banks, sovereign wealth funds and family offices of wealthy individuals.

This seems like patient capital that can wait out a downturn? Unlike a bank where the depositors could flee.

Re: Five US tech giants' hidden debts soar to $1.65T on opaque AI funding

#279

Well technically they don’t own the debt, the SPVs that own the data centers do. The giants just have long term commitments, but if shit hits the fan, it’s not the tech giants but the banks that lent the money to the SPVs that are at risk. This usually means all of us are on the hook.

It doesn't matter who owns the debt, if the debt won't be repaid or refinanced a big black hole on someone's balance sheet of >1.65T will materialize!

The consequences could be unpleasant.

Re: Five US tech giants' hidden debts soar to $1.65T on opaque AI funding

#280

Well technically they don’t own the debt, the SPVs that own the data centers do. The giants just have long term commitments, but if shit hits the fan, it’s not the tech giants but the banks that lent the money to the SPVs that are at risk. This usually means all of us are on the hook.

Looks like they applied this algorithm: All problems can be solved by another level of indirection.
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