Earlier quoted context omitted.
> it did enable a lot of good work to happen. How do we know that when we don't have a copy of the world without this regime? How much more and greater works could have been produced without such a repressive system? A really successful work becomes part of the culture, and remixing, derivatives and other modes of integrating cultural artifacts are prohibited. Why should we allow corporations to own our culture?
You’re arguing that freely remixing original work will give rise to greatness that’s even better than original work?
Judge approves $1.5B Anthropic settlement for pirated books used to train Claude
561–570 of 654 posts
Re: Judge approves $1.5B Anthropic settlement for pirated books used to train Claude
#562Earlier quoted context omitted.
> And since they literally destroyed the books (not just delete files, which would be copied), that made it transformative. You have to be careful, just because the judge points a factor out as notable, doesn't mean that factor was required. The destruction of source books makes Anthropic's fair use argument [2] especially air tight, but it would be a mistake to assume that act was required, or is what made it transf…
What does that mean to be "transformative", as a defense? I thought that was explicitly disallowed use... like turning someone else's book into an audiobook and selling streaming access to it. Or writing a film adaptation and selling the film. Clearly I was thinking about it all wrong. Those wouldn't be allowed, even if you legally aquire the book from a store or library.
But it was an important factor in the google books case.
One of the other key factors is how it impacts potential sales of the original work. Turning it into an audiobook might be transformative, but when you sell access to it people will buy your audiobook instead of the original book. So it's almost certainly not fair use.
In the google books case, google scanned the books but didn't distribute the content of the books to the user. They only distributed the transformed ability to search books to users. The sales of the books weren't impacted negatively, because the user still had to acquire a copy of the book from somewhere else if they wanted to read the whole work. In fact, google books arguable increases sales of the original work in some circumstances.
Re: Judge approves $1.5B Anthropic settlement for pirated books used to train Claude
#563Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why is everyone talking about human analogies when LLMs are not humans?
Why is it different other than, "just cause?" No one seems to have actual reasoning to back it up while it feels very similar the other way around, is human brains and neural nets (notwithstanding that they're both called neurons) seem to learn similarly and can act on similar classes of problems like language and mathematics.
Re: Judge approves $1.5B Anthropic settlement for pirated books used to train Claude
#564Re: Judge approves $1.5B Anthropic settlement for pirated books used to train Claude
#565Earlier quoted context omitted.
A summary of what happened is not a full-throated defense of anyone.
How is that classifed as a summary? Cursory search, https://w2.eff.org/IP/P2P/riaa_at_four.pdf
Then in the second phase when they lost the ability to identify people that way they switched to filing "John Doe" lawsuits, which then allowed them to get subpoenas to identify who owned the IP address where the uploads came from.
I'd completely forgotten about that. In most cases they offered a settlement once they had a name but still, there was a lawsuit. (If they couldn't get a settlement, or didn't even want to ask for one, they could amend the lawsuit to name the real person and proceed).
Re: Judge approves $1.5B Anthropic settlement for pirated books used to train Claude
#566Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've read through the order again. I can't find anywhere where Alsup says the destruction was required. He cites three cases where a conversion from one format to another (without destruction of the previous version) was ruled to be fair use. Including scanning books with the google books case. (And referenced the Napster case, where a similar argument was rejected) Then made the following comparison. "Here, every pu…
> So it wasn't transformative because of the destruction I mean, the parts of "in order to save storage space" and "The print original was destroyed. One replaced the other." again makes it clear (to me at least) that the destruction is pretty much what sticks out here that makes it "more transformative" (whatever that means) than the previous cited cases. But yeah, agree that also "didn't distribute the scanned copi…
I think what he is saving you can't argue the point of the scanning was to save space if you didn't destroy the original. And he concluded that "the mere conversion of a print book to a digital file to save space and enable searchability was transformative for that reason alone"
But my point is that you can't assume Anthropic would have lost if they didn't destroy the books. Alsop didn't rule on that, simply because he didn't need to. Judges hate ruling on things they don't need to.
In an alternative history where Antropic put the physical books in a warehouse after scanning, they could have argued the transformation about "minimising storage costs while increasing the easy of access" and IMO they probably would have won with that too.
Re: Judge approves $1.5B Anthropic settlement for pirated books used to train Claude
#567Earlier quoted context omitted.
Indeed, perhaps I should have said There needs to be a way to support the creation of art.
Great, that way is called copyright. The author has the right to control who has the rights to distribute their work, and can require compensation in exchange for that right; what economists refer to as "selling".
It awards a few creators outsize rewards, but suppress creation of many more.
It does not petform the job that it is supposed to do.
Re: Judge approves $1.5B Anthropic settlement for pirated books used to train Claude
#568Earlier quoted context omitted.
The RIAA typically asked for around $2-4 per song to settle without a lawsuit, which would come to a total of a few thousand because they generally only went after people sharing over a thousand songs. In the couple of few where the party would not agree to a settlement and the RIAA sued, they would pick about 15 of the thousand+ songs to sue over. Statutory damages are a minimum of $750 per infringed work, so the to…
How did the 200 million dollar lawsuits for one song come about then?
For file sharing lawsuits they all ask for "statutory" damages. Those are in the range from $750 to $30000 in the US (but can be lowered to as low as $250 in the case of an "innocent infringer" [1] or raised to as much as $150000 in the case of a "willful infringer" [2]).
These damages are per work infringed, so even if someone were found to be a willful infringer for sharing a song, and the court found their behavior so egregious that it went all the way to $150000, and the person had made and distributed a vast number of copies, it would still only by $150000 because it is not per copy. (Well, it might be per copy in a way...in deciding were to land on the $750-$150000 scale the court may have considered the number of copies).
There have been copyright and copyright adjacent lawsuits over songs that have hit $200 million in the aggregate, but those all involved large collections of songs. Some examples:
• Limp Bizkit sued their record label for $200+ million saying they had concealed that much in royalties that they owed the band.
• There was a $200 million suit by music publishers against Roblox for allowing users to upload and stream commercial compositions without paying the writers.
• There's a massive suit underway I believe against some AI music generation companies.
As far as I know the biggest ever over an individual song was an award of $7.4 million against "Blurred Lines" by Robin Thicke and Pharrell Williams over accusations that the infringed Marvin Gaye's "Got to Give it Up". (That was reduced later to $5.3 million plus 50% of future "Blurred Lines" publishing and songwriting royalties).
[1] Someone who did not know they were infringing and had no reason to know. This almost never applies when pirating things you know are commercial recordings.
Re: Judge approves $1.5B Anthropic settlement for pirated books used to train Claude
#569Earlier quoted context omitted.
Copyright is what stops someone from copy+pasting a book that took years to write, then selling it $1 cheaper than the original author on Amazon or whatever and making a margin 1 million percent higher than the original author. Imagine a society without copyright… only physically intensive jobs could make money because everything else would be pirated, ripped-off or free. Thus, only those who are financially independ…
I can't tell if this comment is satire or not. You're speaking to the generation of pirates. What? Suddenly everyone is hanging up their high seas hat to capture the virtue signals of current sentiment?
Re: Judge approves $1.5B Anthropic settlement for pirated books used to train Claude
#570Earlier quoted context omitted.
You’re arguing that freely remixing original work will give rise to greatness that’s even better than original work?
Possibly. Sort of like how Disney remixed basically everything from existing fairy tales for decades then made it so nobody else could.
So I’d be curious to hear about a counter example.