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Most Americans say "not in my backyard" to AI data centers

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Re: Most Americans say "not in my backyard" to AI data centers

#261

Post by AnthonyMouse »

ThunderBee wrote: post #245
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The average person around them knows quite a bit about the noise level, and how far it carries. Do they? How much noise do you imagine comes from a data center that isn't operating a gas turbine?

I believe there’s been a number of investigative journalists/ YouTubers that have looked into this and it can be quite staggering. Not just human audible noise but infrasound and ultrasound as well. IIRC Ben Jordan’s video “ Datacenters Behaving Like Acoustic Weapons” would probably be a good place to start. They could build these data centers to eliminate the noise but it’s cheaper to ruin the livability of surround…

Ultrasound is extremely non-penetrating and wouldn't make it through the walls of a building. Infrasound is the opposite and would go through most anything, and in principle can be produced by anything that moves, but the thing to care about at those frequencies is the amplitude, i.e. the sound volume. It's a meaningful concern from things like wind farms that have massive slow-turning turbines, but there is nothing in a data center that moves that kind of volume. On top of that, having multiple independent small sources in the same place lessens the effect, because multiple sources that emit at the same frequency but out of phase with each other cancel each other out.

Undoubtedly if you get some measurement equipment and stand next to a data center you could register some infrasound, but the same would be true if you stand next to an ordinary office building or in an empty field, because infrasound carries for hundreds of miles and there are much larger sources than data centers.

"There is a sound but you can't hear it trust me bro" is solidly into YouTube quacks territory.

Re: Most Americans say "not in my backyard" to AI data centers

#262

Post by cucumber3732842 »

dylan604 wrote: post #252
cucumber3732842 wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It also doesn't necessarily matter if the data centers actually raise electricity rates. >Regardless of whether or not they do, you can block their construction and try to horse-trade it for relief on energy prices. So in other words burn the credibility and reputation of whatever you're using for that purpose so you can pull a quick "fuck you got mine" to the tune of several cents per kwh off your bill. That sort o…

As I see it, the AI companies are the ones that started the "fuck you got mine" defense. Look at how they obtained their data to train their models. Look at how they've gone about building their data centers. It's yet another example of how tech companies hurry up to get established with no regards for anything other than getting to a point of being too big to stop.

Things really started breaking down between government and big business and everyone started thinking short term at least as far back as the 1970s IMO.

Re: Most Americans say "not in my backyard" to AI data centers

#263

Post by chasd00 »

cosmic_cheese wrote: post #63
redlewel wrote: post #30

I think this is because the demand is so extreme for datacenters now that companies are building them in a manner that disrupts the environment around them. The newer ones are using on-site generators that are insanely loud and require multiples more power than datacenters have historically needed. For a rack with traditional servers with just RAM/CPU/Drives, 5kW is sufficient in most cases. When you have racks that…

Site selection also isn't very thoughtful. A lot of pre-AI datacenters were placed a good distance away from places where people live, but time to operation seems to be the overwhelming priority now which is pushing them to build right in the middle of or next to developed areas.

idk, at least in DFW the biggest datacenters from the late 90s and early/mid 2000s are in the suburbs where everyone lives. There's some in and near downtown but there's not enough space or it's too expensive. The big datacenters were built where the giant neighborhood were built, places with lots of land for relatively low cost.

Re: Most Americans say "not in my backyard" to AI data centers

#265

Post by chasd00 »

kranke155 wrote: post #205
cosmic_cheese wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Site selection also isn't very thoughtful. A lot of pre-AI datacenters were placed a good distance away from places where people live, but time to operation seems to be the overwhelming priority now which is pushing them to build right in the middle of or next to developed areas.

I don’t understand why they’re doing this? Is extending the grid to their shiny new DC so expensive they’d rather build on top or right next to housing? Is it the water supply ? I don’t understand why someone would do something so clearly self defeating

large, new, far out, grid hookups usually get done in units of years, you don't just call the power company and order one. I think a location with an existing connection to the power they need probably takes priority over every other location decision.

Re: Most Americans say "not in my backyard" to AI data centers

#266

Post by chasd00 »

SoftTalker wrote: post #132
giancarlostoro wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder how long till they start scooping up old abandoned towns?

That's what they should do. Datacenters don't need to be in anyone's backyard. The US has vast amounts of unused land as well as urban brownfields that are sitting empty. Put them there.

> That's what they should do. Datacenters don't need to be in anyone's backyard.

at least in texas that's what they are doing, building them out in the middle of nowhere or close to the middle of nowhere. The issue that I keep seeing pop up is behind the meter power generation ( gas turbines ) is hitting roadblock after roadblock. There just aren't very many and GE is scaling up but i mean it's not like adding RAM in AWS, it's going to take half a decade to see the increased inventory to buy one let alone onsite and operational.

"...demand from utilities, data centers and other power users continues to stretch manufacturing schedules into the next decade."

https://www.compressortech2.com/news/ge-vernova-raises-gas-t...

some are resorting to using ocean liner engines to generate electricity.

"That naturally explains the recent order flow into large reciprocating engines. In April, the Finnish vessel engine manufacturer Wärtsilä Oyj Abp announced a 790 MW off-grid power solution for a new Texas data centre facility,"

https://globalalphacapital.cclgroup.com/insight/gacm-from-se...

Re: Most Americans say "not in my backyard" to AI data centers

#267

Post by ramdomthought »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #261
ThunderBee wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe there’s been a number of investigative journalists/ YouTubers that have looked into this and it can be quite staggering. Not just human audible noise but infrasound and ultrasound as well. IIRC Ben Jordan’s video “ Datacenters Behaving Like Acoustic Weapons” would probably be a good place to start. They could build these data centers to eliminate the noise but it’s cheaper to ruin the livability of surround…

Ultrasound is extremely non-penetrating and wouldn't make it through the walls of a building. Infrasound is the opposite and would go through most anything, and in principle can be produced by anything that moves, but the thing to care about at those frequencies is the amplitude, i.e. the sound volume. It's a meaningful concern from things like wind farms that have massive slow-turning turbines, but there is nothing…

>Ultrasound is extremely non-penetrating and wouldn't make it through the walls of a building

sometimes people like to be able to be outside. the 'quiet' part of the covenant of quiet enjoyment

Re: Most Americans say "not in my backyard" to AI data centers

#268

Post by bigbadfeline »

oceanplexian wrote: post #239
ecommerceguy wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there really demand for 4000 plus data centers? I have a feeling that's shooting a bit above the mark (10x).

If all the talk is true that something approximating human intelligence can be scaled simply by building more datacenters, absolutely, it will be the most desired commodity in the world surpassing all others.

> If all the talk is true that something approximating human intelligence can be scaled simply by building more datacenters.

How can an "approximation of human intelligence" be "scaled by building more datacenters"? That doesn't even make sense. You don't need more datacenters to demonstrate that you have an "approximation of human intelligence", all you need is a lab and at most 1 (one) datacenter. Only after you've demonstrated you know how to deliver the goods, you can think about scaling, retail and marketing.

The demand for the current "approximation" is out there for all to see, it's nothing like the "most desired commodity in the world", in fact, it needs huge inflationary subsidies in order to sustain some sort of demand-for-show.

Re: Most Americans say "not in my backyard" to AI data centers

#269

Post by AuthAuth »

ThunderBee wrote: post #245
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The average person around them knows quite a bit about the noise level, and how far it carries. Do they? How much noise do you imagine comes from a data center that isn't operating a gas turbine?

I believe there’s been a number of investigative journalists/ YouTubers that have looked into this and it can be quite staggering. Not just human audible noise but infrasound and ultrasound as well. IIRC Ben Jordan’s video “ Datacenters Behaving Like Acoustic Weapons” would probably be a good place to start. They could build these data centers to eliminate the noise but it’s cheaper to ruin the livability of surround…

That video by Ben Jordan is emotionally convincing but it makes no solid case for any of its claims.

Re: Most Americans say "not in my backyard" to AI data centers

#270

Post by AnthonyMouse »

ramdomthought wrote: post #267
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ultrasound is extremely non-penetrating and wouldn't make it through the walls of a building. Infrasound is the opposite and would go through most anything, and in principle can be produced by anything that moves, but the thing to care about at those frequencies is the amplitude, i.e. the sound volume. It's a meaningful concern from things like wind farms that have massive slow-turning turbines, but there is nothing…

>Ultrasound is extremely non-penetrating and wouldn't make it through the walls of a building sometimes people like to be able to be outside. the 'quiet' part of the covenant of quiet enjoyment

When you're outside you're not inside the walls of a data center.
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