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Most Americans say "not in my backyard" to AI data centers

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Re: Most Americans say "not in my backyard" to AI data centers

#101

Post by mindslight »

izacus wrote: post #95
strictnein wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. Russia has been doing it for decades and it would be foolish to assume China didn't learn from them. Thomas Rid's "Active Measures" covers this in detail, and it's somewhat maddening to read, because it details how much of the civil strife we've experienced that was exacerbated by their actions. https://www.amazon.com/Active-Measures-History-Disinformatio...

Blaming Russia (and China) in most cases is a cheap cop out to try to deflect, hide and minimize the actual grievances of people living in USA. Yes, there's propaganda and most of it doesn't reach the Americans. It's downright insulting to claim their hurts are something that countries on the other side of the world invented.

> It's downright insulting to claim their hurts are something that countries on the other side of the world invented.

This is not what I said at all. Try to hold more one idea in your head at once.

Re: Most Americans say "not in my backyard" to AI data centers

#103

Post by christina97 »

maerF0x0 wrote: post #66
grim_io wrote: post #35

Your dad's data centers are very different to the new GPU focused beasts. The AI data centers consume a lot more power, and thus generate a lot more heat(equals cooling noise) per square meter. This is the reason why it's a new problem right now. Edit: autocorrect used breasts instead of beasts.

I hear and understand those, but why isn't it a regulation or requirements issue? Ambient noise must be contained, excess heat must be mitigated, free hot water must be provided to nearby buildings. etc. Also this is a city's opportunity to do something like assess penalty tax points. (ie, datacenter usage tax, just like we do to hotels)

Because the people in charge of site picking also shop for low regulation environments.

Re: Most Americans say "not in my backyard" to AI data centers

#105

Post by epolanski »

yoyohello13 wrote: post #38
Aurornis wrote: post #20

I agree that I don’t want a data center in my backyard either. What’s missing from this strange conversation is discussion about how many data center proposals are near residential areas. I tried to look for one in my state and a few surrounding areas and couldn’t find any. There was an amusing story about how data center protestors had to organize expensive bus trips to get the protesters out to the data center site…

My take is that people feel powerless to really do anything against these massive tech companies. This is the only tangible way they can fight back.

I wouldn't want a GPU datacenter close to my house either.

They should buy land in middle of nowhere, many miles from any closest town, no less than 5. And they should build and provide their own electricity.

I don't see any other solution to make everyone coexist in peace.

Imagine it was your house a mile from such a monster. Eyesore, noisy.

Re: Most Americans say "not in my backyard" to AI data centers

#106

Post by 1970-01-01 »

adamrezich wrote: post #93
1970-01-01 wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your two friends are factually correct. You somehow misinterpret how much water they consume. https://spectrum.ieee.org/ai-water-usage

The energy grid use seems far more worrisome than water use. Why would anyone build an AI data center in a specifically “water-stressed region”?

A: Because they can get away with it.

Re: Most Americans say "not in my backyard" to AI data centers

#107

Post by zardo »

maerF0x0 wrote: post #66
grim_io wrote: post #35

Your dad's data centers are very different to the new GPU focused beasts. The AI data centers consume a lot more power, and thus generate a lot more heat(equals cooling noise) per square meter. This is the reason why it's a new problem right now. Edit: autocorrect used breasts instead of beasts.

I hear and understand those, but why isn't it a regulation or requirements issue? Ambient noise must be contained, excess heat must be mitigated, free hot water must be provided to nearby buildings. etc. Also this is a city's opportunity to do something like assess penalty tax points. (ie, datacenter usage tax, just like we do to hotels)

> I hear and understand those, but why isn't it a regulation or requirements issue?

It's a waste of time and money for each town and county to come up with those requirements. If your community puts any limits on the datacenter builder they'll just build it somewhere else, so you might as well save the effort and just say they can't do it.

Re: Most Americans say "not in my backyard" to AI data centers

#109

Post by toast0 »

qurren wrote: post #18
pixelatedindex wrote: post #3

America is so massive, these trillion dollar companies can surely build these out in the boonies with very few people around? ETA: I would rather no data centers be built, but my point is if we have to, let’s minimize the number of people who are affected. Offer to move them if need be.

They need to hire IT, maintainence, and security to run the datacenters, and there aren't many qualified people in the boonies. Small towns are better targets, and honestly also just objectively less damaging to the environment. None of this NIMBYism is about the datacenter itself, it's all a protest against AI making the economy really shitty for them.

You need on the order of 15 permanent onsite employees to run a datacenter; 5 each for 24/7 coverage of security, building maintenance, and tech. You probably don't really need 24/7 onsite for building maintenance or tech. Traveling employees or (probably traveling) contractors can handle projects that exceed the local scope.

Should be able to locally source security and building maintenance, if the pay is good. These are skills that are needed everywhere. The onsite tech can likely be sourced locally too: first and foremost, they're remote hands ... knowledgeable remote hands are nicer, but the mandatory skills are: read and follow directions, notice and report unusual circumstances, lift and manipulate heavy objects. It's not rocket surgery.

If you put your datacenter in the near boonies, say 30 minutes away from the nearest suburb, you can usually still find the big lots you need, and people can commute from there: a 30 minute commute with no traffic isn't too awful. Of course, you'll have neighbors on large lots who didn't think through that living out on the boonies with no zoning meant noisy neighbors could move in. :P

Re: Most Americans say "not in my backyard" to AI data centers

#110

Post by maerF0x0 »

zardo wrote: post #107
maerF0x0 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hear and understand those, but why isn't it a regulation or requirements issue? Ambient noise must be contained, excess heat must be mitigated, free hot water must be provided to nearby buildings. etc. Also this is a city's opportunity to do something like assess penalty tax points. (ie, datacenter usage tax, just like we do to hotels)

> I hear and understand those, but why isn't it a regulation or requirements issue? It's a waste of time and money for each town and county to come up with those requirements. If your community puts any limits on the datacenter builder they'll just build it somewhere else, so you might as well save the effort and just say they can't do it.

the US is a republic of states. By design it wastes time and money to allow disagreement, variety, and self-determination of states.

> they'll just build it somewhere else

Why should we have rights to say they cannot do it somewhere else? It's not a moral issue, it's a tragedy of commons issue or unpriced externality issue.

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