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Who's afraid of Chinese models?

stratechery.com

921–930 of 965 posts

Re: Who's afraid of Chinese models?

#921

The 2 things people need to remember: 1) China can (and does) use the models to influence the west. They train in false information about Taiwan and Hong Kong. Or pretend like history is in favor of China. 2) Ignoring the models containing false information, they are incredible. But you should be scared of running inference via the model creators directly. If you think your data is safe compared to running it via mod…

You think that the US based models aren't doing the same?

Re: Who's afraid of Chinese models?

#922

Lets do "who's afraid of US models" version: * Me, as an individual, because I might not be able to pay price hikes, because my revenue (salary) is much lower than what they want and I can't support my expenses via huge bank loans. * Again, me as a new entrant to the industry, LLMs are basically pay-to-play games, again related to price hikes, new entrants might not be able to afford paying those prices 24/7 - which…

Me as in "Unfortunately, Claude is only available in certain regions right now"

DeepSeek, Kimi, Xiaomi Mimo, Qwen, Minimax, GLM, Hy3 and Ernie are always available, and I can't be happier

Re: Who's afraid of Chinese models?

#923

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Deterministic seed

While using floating point? Not happening. You'd have to switch to fixed point, not just for the models themselves but also _all_ the training code (ie backprop). Even then you'd still need to account for order of events when an entire cluster of GPUs is involved. Also don't forget to account for any synthetic data sources. Or even non-synthetic for that matter - does your pipeline do any image resizing on the fly? B…

> theoretically possible

I mean I guess, but not in a performant way if there are ever any hardware failures. And with 100K GPUs there are multiple hardware failures per day.

Re: Who's afraid of Chinese models?

#924

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I do agree that the US is hypocritical about human rights, but actual violations of human rights should be a reason for sanctions, and the fact that this is done only partly/imperfectly, IMHO, beats the potential alternative when it isn't done at all. This would be a much worse world in my opinion. That's why I said that it was weaponized. In reality US doesn't care if there is a real human rights violation or not,…

Everybody is amoral and cynically only doing good things for personal gain, except for you, the one good person

It's much easier to blame everyone else instead of trying to change myself

Re: Who's afraid of Chinese models?

#925

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Xi could theoretically reduce GDP and associated emissions with the stroke of a pen[1], and so could most legislatures. None are doing it. Building up alternative energy is a work in progress for anyone, they're leaders on electric cars which is good but they won't get off coal until they (or someone) figures out managing a grid with 80%+ of mostly-intermittent inputs from wind and solar. [1] Not really, for the same…

> Xi could theoretically reduce GDP and associated emissions with the stroke of a pen He showed he was willing to do that during Covid. If he was really convinced climate change was a problem he could clearly do more than he is. It’s not a prisoners dilemma issue with Xi like it is with most countries. He controls 1/3 of global emissions. He is probably the only person on the planet who can personally reduce future t…

And then they ended those harsh COVID measures due to unpopularity and protests. He's not God-King.

I'd love for everyone to do more but its a little rich to hear from westerners, who emit more CO2 per person, that the Chinese should stop developing people out of third world poverty for everyone's sake. Peasants produce much less carbon than people with air conditioning.

Re: Who's afraid of Chinese models?

#926
post #902

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because that’s not a logical defense and nobody cares about moral high grounds. That’s why it’s a logical fallacy. Actions can be judged on their own merits regardless of who presents the arguments.

Hilarious. It is absolutely a logical défense: our societal order and its relative fairness don’t emerge from the void. Otherwise a victim defending himself is the same as the person assaulting? Perpetrator: you just stabbed me OMG! Victim: you were going to rape and kill me Perpetrator: sorry that’s just whataboutism and definitely not a logical defence. Your actions can be judged on their own merits, regardless of…

[deleted]

Re: Who's afraid of Chinese models?

#927

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of this is an exaggeration. It was just recently ruled that your phone can be searched extensively at an airport, without a warrant. The only reasonable thing to do is simply not bring your phone. Notice what I am claiming and what I have claimed. I am not claiming these things will happen. I am saying there is a risk. People have gotten executed by the state for not complying with obviously unlawful orders. It…

>The only reasonable thing to do is simply not bring your phone. Actually, not bringing your phone is eminently unreasonable, particularly to an airport. Sure, you could wait in a line for a paper boarding pass, but if everyone were "reasonable" and did this, what do you think it would do to airport lines? What would happen when a flight gets canceled, and everyone rushes to the desks for help? Buddy, birth has a 100…

If anyone knows that life has a 100% fatality rate, it would be me, with cancer. Trust me I know that.

It’s not an argument, it’s just not.

There is an amount of acceptable risk, you’re right. How do we calculate it? By making sure we follow due process, the law, and we hold parties accountable.

ICE is allowed to execute Americans. Yes, allowed. Because they’ve done it many times, and face 0 accountability. So they are allowed to do that.

Now use your knowledge about humans. When humans are allowed to do something, what happens? If we let people get away with murder, what is the end result? This isn’t rocket science buddy. Put on your thinking cap.

Ditto for the police. When the police make mistakes and violate your rights, they face zero consequences. Your average McDonald’s cashier faces more consequences if they forget your god damn ketchup. So the police are allowed to violate your rights, yes they are. So they do, obviously.

I’ll admit: this conversation is a little bit frustrating to me. Because this is not a deep analysis or conspiracy. It’s just very simple facts and then some very basic incentive analysis. It’s disheartening that there are Americans going around not putting any thought into the power structures of entities they interact with. It’s dangerous, too. People like you are the best target ICE and the police could ask for. They want people who lollygag and don’t care about their phone getting tracked, aren’t concerned about tear gas and rubber bullets, and who believe their rights won’t be violated.

Re: Who's afraid of Chinese models?

#928

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Saying it is a matter of degree is an attempt to make what the current administration is doing is similar to what prior admins did. They are not. They are corrupt to the core. As for Biden he pardoned his son beacuse of a MAGA witchhunt.

That’s exactly the point. You justify Biden’s actions saying it’s a MAGA witch hunt and Republicans justify Trump’s action blaming it on democrats. Both parties fails to see what is wrong and right according to the rule of law objectively. The sad part is that all those actions by politicians from both parties negatively affect the normal people, however the irony is that those people would still defend them instead…

I don’t see it that way. What maga is going is completely and utterly outside the law.

Re: Who's afraid of Chinese models?

#929
post #835

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't a security issue related to self-hosting, it's a security issue related to use and it is shared entirely by closed weights models. Anthropic could easily be sneaking bugs into your generated code, too.

Correct, that was not my point either.

You were answering the question "What security issues come from self-hosting?" The security issue you named has nothing to do with self-hosting. What, then, was your point?

Re: Who's afraid of Chinese models?

#930
post #682

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure but if you are not Chinese or in China, then the chances of negative consequences to you from the Chinese feds is vanishingly small due to lack of ability to do anything that affects you. Meanwhile if you are in the US, DHS has already subpoenaed social media sites looking for people who made anti-ICE posts and I can't imagine they consider subpoenaing AI conversations off limits https://www.nytimes.com/2026/02/…

Also the US government has defacto extra-territorial jurisdiction due to the willingness of allied countries (i.e. most of the developed world) to extradite. Of course only applies when they really want to get you, but that's still a risk.

The chances of a foreign country extraditing you (or the US requesting extradition) over social media posts is for now quite low, fortunately, though you're right.

Broader point being, in general if a country's federal police are going to be spying on you, if you get to pick the country you should pick the one in which you do not reside and don't plan to visit. For a typical US citizen who is not an intelligence target, the chances of negative consequences from China spying on them is way lower than the chances of negative consequences from the FBI spying on them, simply because the FBI will have nonzero false positives.

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