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Advertise in ChatGPT

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Re: Advertise in ChatGPT

#811

Post by Marha01 »

bayindirh wrote: post #800
Marha01 wrote: post #796

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People driving dangerously is not a technical problem. Complete bullshit. This problem can be completely solved by a technical, not societal solution: actually working self-driving cars. Once they are available, all your imperfect societal solutions to the problem are not needed anymore.

Yeah, that future is certainly here: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/-FXvRHHjXSU I don't believe many understands the complexity of a self-driving car. It's not like programming a couple of agents with simulated sensors on a computer.

That future is not here yet, but my point still stands: once they are sufficiently developed (it's only a matter of time, perhaps 5 years, perhaps 20 years), your societal problem suddenly has a technological solution. QED.

Re: Advertise in ChatGPT

#812

Post by rubyfan »

freediver wrote: post #803
bayindirh wrote: post #437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kagi is not only an ad-free subscription. It’s a mental budget booster. Knowing there are no ads and results are higher quality removes a mental load I didn’t know I was carrying. It’s possibly the single most impactful thing in my digital life. Thanks for everything, and please keep doing what you’re doing.

Thank you for words of support and love the background picture on your website.

/ot Hamburger menu at the bottom right is pretty nice too. Haven’t seen it there before but seems like a very user friendly choice for its placement.

Re: Advertise in ChatGPT

#813

Post by disgruntledphd2 »

SebastianKra wrote: post #650
disgruntledphd2 wrote: post #568

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Ah, so you are against ads! At least the way ads are today. With that I mean that the way ads today mostly focus on manipulating over informing is effectively hindering your ability to choose. Speaking as someone who worked in advertising for a looooonnnngggg time, there are three ways that ads seem to work (above a randomised holdout). 1. The ad is something that the person actually wants, and they then convert. 2…

When I walk around my increasingly billboard-infested hometown. I observe that almost every ad actually nudges me in some way: whether I should switch internet providers, whether my financial strategy is fine, what kind of scam this tabloid newspaper is running, etc... I believe most people are influenced by these constant micro-impressions far more than they realize. My best defense is to build a resentment towards…

> I believe most people are influenced by these constant micro-impressions far more than they realize.

Your feelings are fair, but if this were the case then we'd see far more consumers changing their preferred phone/electricity/TV provider on a regular basis, and we could correlate this with (lagged) advertising spend.

But there is very little evidence for this. Like, I have a doctorate in psychology, and behaviour change is really, really hard and only works in a small number of cases. That model does seem to have predictive power, in that very few people convert as a result of seeing an ad (less than 1/1000 in the very best cases), and most of those that do don't keep buying products for long.

Now, if you already do something (like order takeaway pizza) it's much easier to get someone to do more of that, but its very very very hard to establish a new behaviour.

Re: Advertise in ChatGPT

#814

Post by disgruntledphd2 »

pigpop wrote: post #648
disgruntledphd2 wrote: post #568

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Ah, so you are against ads! At least the way ads are today. With that I mean that the way ads today mostly focus on manipulating over informing is effectively hindering your ability to choose. Speaking as someone who worked in advertising for a looooonnnngggg time, there are three ways that ads seem to work (above a randomised holdout). 1. The ad is something that the person actually wants, and they then convert. 2…

Your explanation should be common sense for anyone who has been around long enough and I agree that it seems to be fashionable to claim that ads have a nefarious, hypnotic effect on The Masses. The thing that does seem to have an outsized effect on how people think is their desire to be seen as part of a group and they tend to signal this by repeating arguments they've heard members of that group make. That's where a…

> The thing that does seem to have an outsized effect on how people think is their desire to be seen as part of a group and they tend to signal this by repeating arguments they've heard members of that group make. That's where advertising/propaganda has a real foothold in everyone's psychology.

Monkey see, monkey do. This is basically how human society works, and is impossible to stop. The best you could do would be control who people hang around with, but even that is almost impossibly hard to make work.

Re: Advertise in ChatGPT

#815

Post by Centigonal »

tux3 wrote: post #35

Those ads are supposed to be "Clearly labeled" and "Separate from answers". Now, this is the sort of rock-solid commitment to trust and safety that steadily gets worse every year until you go from old Netflix to Poob with ads. But the water's still fine. As a frog, let me tell you, it doesn't feel hot at all.

Moreover, OpenAI already doesn't have the best reputation for maintaining ideals over doing the convenient and profitable thing

Re: Advertise in ChatGPT

#816

Post by disgruntledphd2 »

markovs_gun wrote: post #649
disgruntledphd2 wrote: post #569

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but at some point the model operators will offer this directly This is illegal in basically all of the developed world.

Does that matter? AI companies seem more concerned with scaling at any cost regardless of laws broken because once they're big enough they're too central to the economy to face any real consequences.

Weird, I thought I'd replied here.

This is different as the victims of this crime would be large enterprises with lawyers on staff, rather than a diffuse agglomeration of all the world's writers.

Re: Advertise in ChatGPT

#817

Post by InsideOutSanta »

bilbo0s wrote: post #775
InsideOutSanta wrote: post #502

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a customer of Kagi who is in no way affiliated with Kagi, other than sending them money. I agree with bayindirh: It’s possibly the single most impactful thing in my digital life. I know that we live in a world where tech increasingly sucks, and positive comments on tech are (correctly!) seen as suspicious. The thing, though, is that Kagi is genuinely just a great product, and search is such a central part of usin…

> trustworthy search makes a huge difference That's the rub. Today on the internet, no one can validate that there exists any "trustworthy search". If we don't control the servers and validate the software on it, then we are taking someone's word for it. Most often that someone is a marketing person at the hosting organization. Occasionally it's a random comment on the internet behind a pseudonym we know nothing abou…

> If we don't control the servers and validate the software on it, then we are taking someone's word for it

That's what trust is, though. I find Kagi worthy of trust since I have no evidence that they are doing anything that would violate my trust in them, and their incentives align with mine. I give them money, they give me good search results.

> People are becoming more and more, justifiably, cynical. And it's good for society that they are.

I do not believe that this is good. Democracies are built on trust. Without trust, they die, as we can plainly see in the US right now, where people are so distrustful of each other that it is starting to destroy the very fabric holding together society itself.

Re: Advertise in ChatGPT

#818

Post by ifh-hn »

echelon wrote: post #808
ifh-hn wrote: post #736

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So people that don't agree with you are myopic? You solution is to hope that a better technology will be invented that won't be subject to what every technology before it has been subject to. You rally against "the algorithm" and beg for another algorithm to save you. You want to live in a filter bubble and not be challenged on you believes. I can't think of anything worse, but I wish you the best. Also I don't know…

I only have so much energy to reply to all of this negativity. Half of it is being cut off at the legs by HN filters from the constant downvotes and flagging. Downvotes and flagging for attempting to be positive and excited about tech progress. You're not going to do anything about big tech by sitting on the sidelines. I don't see anyone doing anything about it. Nobody's built websites that show people how to contact…

Negativity does not equals disagreement. I disagree with you I'm not being negative. I can't speak to downvotes and flagging.

Also I find it ironic that you would state no one is building alternatives when you previously lambasted the alternatives (blue sky, kagi, etc). What are you doing? Apart from engaging in fantasy.

Your solution is to have big tech filter out the stuff you don't like. These agents are a product of big tech. They need massive resources in terms of money, hardware, and resources to run. This isn't tech for the poor and downtrodden, it's tech for the rich and privileged. By the time the poor can afford it (if it doesn't destroy the environment first) it'll already be infected by what you despise in current big tech; if it isn't already.

Re: Advertise in ChatGPT

#819

Post by fny »

maho wrote: post #504

If a majority of users switch to ad-powered free tiers, a majority of users will see well-written, targeted advice that is ads (lies!) in disguise. This is a horrible future to consider. The more I think about it, the more I come to the conclusion that a society that bans ads is a healthier, more robust society, and I am not alone. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43595269

From the article, it looks like ads are separate from answers in a clearly delineated way. It's not quite as nefarious as what you're suggesting. Frankly, I'm surprised.

This is only round one however, and I could see a future where they offer more "intimate" experiences. At least that's not today.

Re: Advertise in ChatGPT

#820

Post by myrmidon »

disgruntledphd2 wrote: post #813
SebastianKra wrote: post #650

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I walk around my increasingly billboard-infested hometown. I observe that almost every ad actually nudges me in some way: whether I should switch internet providers, whether my financial strategy is fine, what kind of scam this tabloid newspaper is running, etc... I believe most people are influenced by these constant micro-impressions far more than they realize. My best defense is to build a resentment towards…

> I believe most people are influenced by these constant micro-impressions far more than they realize. Your feelings are fair, but if this were the case then we'd see far more consumers changing their preferred phone/electricity/TV provider on a regular basis, and we could correlate this with (lagged) advertising spend. But there is very little evidence for this. Like, I have a doctorate in psychology, and behaviour…

Anecdotally, lots of intelligent people I know like to pretend to be completely uninfluenced by advertising, which I think is delusional.

In my view advertising is in big parts (your category 3) basically a constant side-channel attack against peoples minds, eroding decisionmaking and purchasing decisions (mostly!) to peoples detriment.

The net-beneficial aspects (product information, and, arguably, boosted general demand) could be better achieved otherwise.

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