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Passkeys were invented by engineers with zero understanding of consumer brain

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Re: Passkeys were invented by engineers with zero understanding of consumer brain

#21

Post by juancn »

gortok wrote: post #8

I do not know how to use a Passkey in a way that won’t impede how I log in to systems. I’ve been in tech for 26 years, and I understand the Public/private key behind what a Passkey is. Here’s what I don’t understand: I access a website through at least four different devices (my iPad, iPhone, Windows Desktop computer, and MacBook Pro) and three different browsers on each device (Brave, Firefox, Safari) , and I use La…

Same here, also what if I lose the device?

I can safely write down a password on a piece of paper and keep it somewhere phyisically safe.

Passkeys and 2FA are a usability nightmare if you need to recover, or all the security vanishes if you put usable recovery mechanisms for the passkey or the second factor.

Re: Passkeys were invented by engineers with zero understanding of consumer brain

#22

Post by varispeed »

I find it difficult to explain how to use password manager to non-IT person. Whatever I say, they say it is not secure. No amount of explanation will change their mind. They prefer to keep their passwords in their physical note book hidden in the safe (yes, they open the safe etc each time they need to log in somewhere when they get logged out).

As someone with ADHD a passkey is something I can lose easily and I don't want my accounts to be tied to any specific device. What if I have to upgrade my laptop tomorrow because one I use got bricked? Sounds like an absolute nightmare.

Password on the other hand I can remember for dozens of services, each very long.

Re: Passkeys were invented by engineers with zero understanding of consumer brain

#23

Post by darknavi »

gortok wrote: post #8

I do not know how to use a Passkey in a way that won’t impede how I log in to systems. I’ve been in tech for 26 years, and I understand the Public/private key behind what a Passkey is. Here’s what I don’t understand: I access a website through at least four different devices (my iPad, iPhone, Windows Desktop computer, and MacBook Pro) and three different browsers on each device (Brave, Firefox, Safari) , and I use La…

Why not use passkeys in LastPass? Then the passkey travels with you to your devices/apps.

Re: Passkeys were invented by engineers with zero understanding of consumer brain

#24

Post by varispeed »

juancn wrote: post #21
gortok wrote: post #8

I do not know how to use a Passkey in a way that won’t impede how I log in to systems. I’ve been in tech for 26 years, and I understand the Public/private key behind what a Passkey is. Here’s what I don’t understand: I access a website through at least four different devices (my iPad, iPhone, Windows Desktop computer, and MacBook Pro) and three different browsers on each device (Brave, Firefox, Safari) , and I use La…

Same here, also what if I lose the device? I can safely write down a password on a piece of paper and keep it somewhere phyisically safe. Passkeys and 2FA are a usability nightmare if you need to recover, or all the security vanishes if you put usable recovery mechanisms for the passkey or the second factor.

Sounds like something security services would love people to use. Instead of using wrench to extract the password - and distressed person may lose memory, they can just locate the passkey.

Re: Passkeys were invented by engineers with zero understanding of consumer brain

#25

Post by cpburns2009 »

FireBeyond wrote: post #18
wadim wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm using bitwarden, but it's possible to use passkeys from multiple devices and if it's not available for whatever reason, you can just login with username/password/token/biological probe/whatever you used before. As an example: GitLab gives you both options right from the start, so you can use whatever you fancy in that particular moment.

Did [someone from the Working Group] ever back down from their implied threat to blacklist Bitwarden for allowing for the sharing/export of passkeys? That really rubbed me the wrong way, and smacked very heavily of "the big players (MSFT, AAPL, GOOG) can do this - you can't".

I know KeePassXC faced the same threat. I don't know whatever became of it.

Re: Passkeys were invented by engineers with zero understanding of consumer brain

#26

Post by juancn »

mingus88 wrote: post #20
gortok wrote: post #8

I do not know how to use a Passkey in a way that won’t impede how I log in to systems. I’ve been in tech for 26 years, and I understand the Public/private key behind what a Passkey is. Here’s what I don’t understand: I access a website through at least four different devices (my iPad, iPhone, Windows Desktop computer, and MacBook Pro) and three different browsers on each device (Brave, Firefox, Safari) , and I use La…

It’s really not that hard. Most of your devices are in the Apple ecosystem and when you are prompted to create a passphrase it will ask you to put it in your iCloud Keychain. Boom, now it is available across all of those This is how it will work for most people who don’t care about security and just casually use their devices. My boomer mom does this. It’s better than the notebook full of handwritten passwords she wa…

What if I lose all my apple devices? House break-in and they steal my mac and my phone?

You're basically fucked even if you buy a new one because you need one of the other two to log in.

Re: Passkeys were invented by engineers with zero understanding of consumer brain

#27

Post by coldpie »

mingus88 wrote: post #20
gortok wrote: post #8

I do not know how to use a Passkey in a way that won’t impede how I log in to systems. I’ve been in tech for 26 years, and I understand the Public/private key behind what a Passkey is. Here’s what I don’t understand: I access a website through at least four different devices (my iPad, iPhone, Windows Desktop computer, and MacBook Pro) and three different browsers on each device (Brave, Firefox, Safari) , and I use La…

It’s really not that hard. Most of your devices are in the Apple ecosystem and when you are prompted to create a passphrase it will ask you to put it in your iCloud Keychain. Boom, now it is available across all of those This is how it will work for most people who don’t care about security and just casually use their devices. My boomer mom does this. It’s better than the notebook full of handwritten passwords she wa…

Proton Pass is on the official Passkey client naughty list[1]. I hope the services you log in to don't choose to ban it because of those big, scary X's.

[1] https://passkeys.dev/docs/reference/known-issues/

Re: Passkeys were invented by engineers with zero understanding of consumer brain

#28

Post by juancn »

datakan wrote: post #6

Passkeys are just SSH keys in how they work. We've been doing this since the 90's. The only people that use SSH keys are the Linux savvy users and those who are forced to via an enterprise solution for vaulting. The average person doesn't know anything about this stuff nor do they care. I also have yet to see a Passkey solution that didn't also have a password on it and a nice little box letting people choose to use…

I would feel a lot better using SSH keys rather than passkeys. At least those are understandable.

Re: Passkeys were invented by engineers with zero understanding of consumer brain

#29

Post by microflash »

gortok wrote: post #8

I do not know how to use a Passkey in a way that won’t impede how I log in to systems. I’ve been in tech for 26 years, and I understand the Public/private key behind what a Passkey is. Here’s what I don’t understand: I access a website through at least four different devices (my iPad, iPhone, Windows Desktop computer, and MacBook Pro) and three different browsers on each device (Brave, Firefox, Safari) , and I use La…

You can store your passkeys in Bitwarden or Keepass vault. Then you can use them through Bitwarden or Keepass apps on any other device. Been using passkeys like this for several years, and it works pretty seamlessly. With Keepass vault, I even have an offline copy as backup.
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