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Roblox Officially Supports GrapheneOS

en.help.roblox.com

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Re: Roblox Officially Supports GrapheneOS

#51

Post by dannersy »

ChocolateGod wrote: post #50
jkahrs595 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me rephrase, it doesn’t actively oppose Linux like Fortnite does. Roblox absolutely can run on Linux, even though it’s not officially supported.

Fortnite doesn't actively oppose Linux, compared to Roblox cheating which keeps a lot of logic on the server, cheating on Fortnite on the client has a more bigger impact. Unfortunately there's no way to properly ship a kernel level anti-cheat on Linux right now and none of the mainstream distros ship with any kind of attestation or OS verification out the box like Android does. SteamOS could change it here though, we…

Kernel level anti-cheat seems to be ultimately ineffective. I've seen this with my own eyes with backend data when I worked for a company with a moderately successful shooter. Kernel level anti-cheat is serving a similar function to something like EAC these days, which basically just keeps the lazy people out. With any decently sufficient backend data analysis, you catch these folks just as easy.

I am of the belief that if you cannot completely control the environment, like a user's physical hardware, you're fighting a losing battle. Forcing them to install spyware is, in my opinion, just marketing for your competitive shooter and too invasive for the perceived gain.

Re: Roblox Officially Supports GrapheneOS

#52

Post by 4gotunameagain »

Moomoomoo309 wrote: post #49
Cider9986 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a ROM it's an OS.

ROM is to android what distro is to Linux. The term is used correctly here. An android ROM could refer to the stock OS, GrapheneOS, LineageOS, Pixel Experience, etc.

ROM is to android what an image file is to Linux. A distro is a collection of software and tools, more akin to an android OS.

Re: Roblox Officially Supports GrapheneOS

#53

Post by flexagoon »

TranquilMarmot wrote: post #45
annzabelle wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been looking into GrapheneOS as a longtime Pixel user who is thinking of becoming a bit more security conscious. But, looking around at its current state RE: RCS and camera apps, I think it makes the most sense to stick with stock Android. I also have a really niche feature I rely on daily (letting me "wifi call" from one sim over the data line of the other sim), and it's really hard to tell if GrapheneOS suppor…

I did have RCS issues with GrapheneOS (on T-Mobile in the US) for a while, but at some point that was fixed and it works flawlessly now. As for camera apps, the stock GrapheneOS camera app is a bit clunky, I just download the stock Android "Camera" off of the Play Store...

> I just download the stock Android "Camera"

The "stock Android camera" (the one in AOSP) is absolutely horrible. You're probably using Google's Pixel camera app.

Re: Roblox Officially Supports GrapheneOS

#54

Post by a2128 »

nekitamo wrote: post #36
a2128 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Roblox has a long history of not supporting Linux, and the game was rendered unplayable for many years. In 2022 it became possible following some Wine patches, but then they began to implement a kernel-level anticheat. Roblox initially committed to keeping Wine working but suddenly went back on that and blocked it without notice. Today, the last remaining way is through running the Android version of the game through…

This isn't true. Roblox never had and does not have a kernel anti-cheat.

My mistake, I just assumed their Byfron anti-cheat is kernel level because that's the most common reason why anticheats take issue with Wine. If their anti-cheat operates entirely in usermode, then their decision to block Wine is even more baffling to me.

Re: Roblox Officially Supports GrapheneOS

#55

Post by preisschild »

snvzz wrote: post #35

However, if on LineageOS, which mind you is the only way to get updated (and thus safer) android versions in many devices, they simply block you. Awful.

LineageOS has no AVB support at all unfortunately and most devices don't allow using verified boot with custom keys anyways. With GrapheneOS they can just add GrapheneOS public keys (https://grapheneos.org/attestation.json).

For LOS Roblox would have to disable hardware attestation completely, which means you can easily just add extra modules such as a setuid binary which makes cheating easy (at least on the client side, you'd have to rely completely on server side anti cheating)

https://eylenburg.github.io/android_comparison.htm

Re: Roblox Officially Supports GrapheneOS

#56

Post by preisschild »

Moomoomoo309 wrote: post #49
Cider9986 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a ROM it's an OS.

ROM is to android what distro is to Linux. The term is used correctly here. An android ROM could refer to the stock OS, GrapheneOS, LineageOS, Pixel Experience, etc.

With immutable distros (see bootc or systemd-sysupgrade) the operating system itself is also only just a read only file system. Does that count as ROM too?

Re: Roblox Officially Supports GrapheneOS

#57

Post by andrewaylett »

dugite-code wrote: post #22

This is a really interesting signal tbh. While it sounds like it already works on GrapheneOS having a corporation come out and say they won't go out of their way to break it is quite unusual.

It requires a positive action from the application developer to include GrapheneOS's keys as well as Google's keys. So this is a deliberate positive step, rather than a default.

Re: Roblox Officially Supports GrapheneOS

#59

Post by ChocolateGod »

dannersy wrote: post #51
ChocolateGod wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fortnite doesn't actively oppose Linux, compared to Roblox cheating which keeps a lot of logic on the server, cheating on Fortnite on the client has a more bigger impact. Unfortunately there's no way to properly ship a kernel level anti-cheat on Linux right now and none of the mainstream distros ship with any kind of attestation or OS verification out the box like Android does. SteamOS could change it here though, we…

Kernel level anti-cheat seems to be ultimately ineffective. I've seen this with my own eyes with backend data when I worked for a company with a moderately successful shooter. Kernel level anti-cheat is serving a similar function to something like EAC these days, which basically just keeps the lazy people out. With any decently sufficient backend data analysis, you catch these folks just as easy. I am of the belief t…

> With any decently sufficient backend data analysis, you catch these folks just as easy.

No you can't. Using server side analysis of behaviour will always get false positives, especially as ML networks are getting better and better at reproducing normal player behaviour.

Your server side logic can't detect wall hacks, ESPs etc.

> which basically just keeps the lazy people out

That's better than nothing. Cheating will always be possible (see DMA devices), but as long as you make it reasonably hard to put most people off it, that's a success.

> cannot completely control the environment

But applications should be able to attest the environment is not modified, which is what desktop Linux lacks. Windows, macOS and Android do have methods to do this.

> like a user's physical hardware, you're fighting a losing battle

The alternative is no releases on PC.

Re: Roblox Officially Supports GrapheneOS

#60

Post by cyberrock »

jkahrs595 wrote: post #6
unleaded wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who's their biggest rival? Roblox doesn't support Linux either.

Let me rephrase, it doesn’t actively oppose Linux like Fortnite does. Roblox absolutely can run on Linux, even though it’s not officially supported.

Native Roblox has blocked Linux for 3 years, and games on it (especially PvP ones) can and do require Android remote attestation which Sober doesn't implement. It wouldn't surprise me if Graphene can't play those games as well.

Roblox is a platform. Fortnite is still primarily one game.

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