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Apple defeats liability for not scanning iCloud for CSAM

blog.ericgoldman.org

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Re: Apple defeats liability for not scanning iCloud for CSAM

#461

Post by giantg2 »

holgerschurig wrote: post #438
Hasz wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it isn't about CSAM, IMO. You see this with plenty of social issues, notably firearms ownership. The claim is we will restrict/license/outlaw xyz for the kids, but really, a data-drive approach would have focused on different things entirely (eg additional behavioral health services for kids, suicide prevention etc) The same technology/access used for CSAM identification can find copyrighted files, materials…

The thing is that a society does not always do only ONE thing. You mentioned that there are better ways to protect kids. But maybe they cost more (e.g. banning firearms is dead cheap, while setting up a structure with lots of psychologists specialized in teenager problems is really expensive). Also you can do one and the other ... at the same time. E.g. suicides of kids/teenagers ( And keep in mind, the total deaths…

Banning firearms isn't "dead cheap" if you have 400 million in existence. The enforcement would cost a lot, even if you didn't perform a mandatory buyback program. Germany doesn't have an outright ban on guns, but strict regulation. Running the regulation costs money.

A note about copying - you have to look at the culture to see if how things will work. Germany has vastly different socioeconomics than the US, and socioeconomics are major factors in crime and homicide. Not to mention the percentage of people who own guns and are pro-gun are vastly different. Applying the same regulations in the US will take decades for criminals to no longer have many guns and then they will switch to knives and screwdrivers as we see in the UK, which has about dowluble the violent crime rate as the US after accounting for differences in the stats (somewhat culturally/socioeconomically similar). So it might make the gun numbers better, but it won't solve the real drivers.

The best approach would be to address the underlying factors and causes of all violence while still allowing freedoms for the 44% who do not support stricter regulation.

Re: Apple defeats liability for not scanning iCloud for CSAM

#462

Post by phoghed »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #340
phoghed wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

This is probably across the line for being a "personal attack". Those are against site rules. Please don't do this here.

Only if you view autistic people in a negative way. Otherwise it’s just a normal observation. To me it’s a hilarious comment, it’s gems like this that keep me coming back over the years.

Re: Apple defeats liability for not scanning iCloud for CSAM

#463

Post by giantg2 »

myko wrote: post #452
redeeman wrote: post #416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

and this is very clearly unconstitutional. "shall not be infringed" is very very plain and simple

The 2A was created for states to maintain their own troops, what is now the modern national guard - hence "well regulated militia" SCOTUS bastardized this original intent. It's shameful.

What you miss is that US Code defines militia as the explicit militia that you mention, but also the implicit militia. That implicit militia includes others not in the national guard.

It's also worth mentioning that most states have similar language to the second amendment, including states whose constitutions were implemented prior to the bill of rights, lending to the credence that this is a right of the people, and not of the state. The 10th amendment was supposed to be for the rights of the states.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/10/246

Re: Apple defeats liability for not scanning iCloud for CSAM

#464

Post by phoghed »

rationalist wrote: post #344
phoghed wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it seems more like you are being disingenuous. All you have to do is drop a link to the rates you’re referring to. Instead you’re just arguing semantics. Where’s the receipts?

> something like I thought adding "for example" at the end was just unnecessary redundancy, but I guess I was wrong. I still don't understand why the other person is trying to cross-examine me on the definition of "rate" or whatever though. That is the person arguing semantics, not me... (Same with you, except you're going one step further and trying to gaslight me.) I'm curious, do you have something against churche…

No, you said explicitly that kids are sexually assaulted at a higher rate in schools than they are in churches or scouts.

You clarified that you mean per 100,000 children more are likely to be sexually assaulted in schools.

Usually when someone has a belief like this, it’s grounded by something that they read or learned somewhere. Where did you learn this? Why aren’t you sharing the source with everyone else so they can learn it too?

But there’s still nuance there that you’re ignoring as well. We could say that rate should be examined per hour because a kid will spend 30 hours per week at school vs a few hours per week at scouts or church. Without your source though, we have no idea what the rates are, if they are what you say, if there’s even a significant difference, etc.

Now you’re trying to act like a victim because people want clarity on what exactly you mean and where you learned it.

Nobody is “gaslighting” you, just give the receipts.

Re: Apple defeats liability for not scanning iCloud for CSAM

#465

Post by belorn »

giantg2 wrote: post #448
belorn wrote: post #402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When we say that handguns cause more deaths than assault rifles, is that normalized towards ownership? Data and statistics is as always dependent on how and what you measure.

What I could find was that there are estimated to be about 350-500 million firearms in the US. The closest thing to a breakdown was 30-50 million semi-auto rifles, and probably close to a 60/40 split handgun to long gun over time (article shows trends). Murders per year using rifles and shotguns were less than 600 combined. Handguns accounted for over 6000. So the number of hanguns is maybe something like 20% higher…

Rifles are problematic as a single category since that involves hunting rifles. We can look at machine guns as a category that is neither rifle or handgun, and with limited use in hunting.

That said, the death rate of machine gun ownership may still be lower than handgun ownership, with a possible explanation being that it is easier to buy a handgun compared to a machine gun. A further jump into the data would then explore who are the buyer demographic of a handgun compared to a machine gun, and how machine guns compare to handguns in locations where both has similar restrictions on those who buy them.

An other avenue to explore would be to look at purchases of ammunition to determine which guns are actually in use for non-murder purposes. Hunting ammunition for example may show a much more common use than guns used for non-hunting purposes, and thus have a lower murder rate per shot. Machine guns and handguns might share a much more similar profile in that regard, possible normalized towards how much ammunition each use in a target range.

Re: Apple defeats liability for not scanning iCloud for CSAM

#466

Post by rationalist »

phoghed wrote: post #464
rationalist wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> something like I thought adding "for example" at the end was just unnecessary redundancy, but I guess I was wrong. I still don't understand why the other person is trying to cross-examine me on the definition of "rate" or whatever though. That is the person arguing semantics, not me... (Same with you, except you're going one step further and trying to gaslight me.) I'm curious, do you have something against churche…

No, you said explicitly that kids are sexually assaulted at a higher rate in schools than they are in churches or scouts. You clarified that you mean per 100,000 children more are likely to be sexually assaulted in schools. Usually when someone has a belief like this, it’s grounded by something that they read or learned somewhere. Where did you learn this? Why aren’t you sharing the source with everyone else so they…

> just give the receipts.

Just read my last comment I posted two hours before you posted yours?

> you’re ignoring as well.

You're assuming facts not in evidence.

> We could say that rate should be examined per hour because a kid will spend 30 hours per week at school vs...

"Don't worry Timmy, even though you were molested at school, because you're forced to go there every (week)day and spend more time there than church, Boy Scouts, etc, you statistically had less of a chance per hour of being molested."

Per hour makes zero sense.

Do you have something against churches or scouts? I can't imagine why you are being ao convoluted otherwise.

> Nobody is “gaslighting” you, just give the receipts.

I already gave the "receipts". Stop trying to gaslight me.

...

FYI everyone else: the Boy Scouts has a "two deep" leadership policy, meaning no private one-on-one contact between youth and adults. That's why 90+% of cases were from over 50 years ago. And don't believe everything you read on reddit, because I saw one comment where someone claimed they were abused as a kid by their troop manager... No one who actually was a Scout would call their Scoutmaster a "troop manager". It almost certainly was someone who was ideologically opposed to Boy Scouts. (If someone can teach me how to use reddit's aweful search function to find that comment, I'll gladly provide that "receipt".)

Re: Apple defeats liability for not scanning iCloud for CSAM

#467

Post by LanceH »

MBCook wrote: post #347
throwaway17824 wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm taking a guess at what the OP meant, but people focus on assault rifles and high-capacity magazines. Supposedly most incidents and deaths are caused by handguns. They're more affordable, and easy to discretely keep on your person. A data-driven policy would focus on them first, but it's easier to rile up the public about AR-15s so we keep doing the less-effective thing.

Things that feel useful instead of are useful. We're not allowed to use data or experts. They’re untrustworthy and out to trick us.

> They’re untrustworthy and out to trick us.

When politics is involved, there is a lot of truth to this.

Re: Apple defeats liability for not scanning iCloud for CSAM

#468

Post by master-lincoln »

giantg2 wrote: post #461
holgerschurig wrote: post #438

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing is that a society does not always do only ONE thing. You mentioned that there are better ways to protect kids. But maybe they cost more (e.g. banning firearms is dead cheap, while setting up a structure with lots of psychologists specialized in teenager problems is really expensive). Also you can do one and the other ... at the same time. E.g. suicides of kids/teenagers ( And keep in mind, the total deaths…

Banning firearms isn't "dead cheap" if you have 400 million in existence. The enforcement would cost a lot, even if you didn't perform a mandatory buyback program. Germany doesn't have an outright ban on guns, but strict regulation. Running the regulation costs money. A note about copying - you have to look at the culture to see if how things will work. Germany has vastly different socioeconomics than the US, and soc…

> Applying the same regulations in the US will take decades for criminals to no longer have many guns and then they will switch to knives and screwdrivers as we see in the UK

That seems like a thing to pursue rather earlier than later if it takes so long to bear fruits. Knives and screwdrivers are at least only used for close-up combat.

>The best approach would be to address the underlying factors and causes of all violence while still allowing freedoms for the 44% who do not support stricter regulation.

To have the money for that you would need abolish capitalism I guess...

Re: Apple defeats liability for not scanning iCloud for CSAM

#469

Post by LanceH »

inigyou wrote: post #427
manoDev wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CSAM is the perfect trojan horse to undermine privacy everywhere. No politician and no company can oppose it on the grounds of protecting privacy before having the reputation ruined. Meanwhile the real pedos are rich people vacationing in well known places.

Are you sure? Can't they say "yeah pedophilia is fucked up but reading all our emails is also fucked up"?

> reading all our emails is also fucked up

Why? are you hiding something in your email?

Re: Apple defeats liability for not scanning iCloud for CSAM

#470

Post by lacunary »

belorn wrote: post #465
giantg2 wrote: post #448

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I could find was that there are estimated to be about 350-500 million firearms in the US. The closest thing to a breakdown was 30-50 million semi-auto rifles, and probably close to a 60/40 split handgun to long gun over time (article shows trends). Murders per year using rifles and shotguns were less than 600 combined. Handguns accounted for over 6000. So the number of hanguns is maybe something like 20% higher…

Rifles are problematic as a single category since that involves hunting rifles. We can look at machine guns as a category that is neither rifle or handgun, and with limited use in hunting. That said, the death rate of machine gun ownership may still be lower than handgun ownership, with a possible explanation being that it is easier to buy a handgun compared to a machine gun. A further jump into the data would then e…

just to be clear, it appears you're making up studies, results and explanations for results all in one go, is that right?
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