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Who's afraid of Chinese models?

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Re: Who's afraid of Chinese models?

#911

Post by mihaic »

WarmWash wrote: post #676
mihaic wrote: post #656

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The paradox is that their IP was obtained by distillation of the collective IP of humanity.

I'm sure all those stackexchange experts will be getting their checks for helping launch countless software projects over the last 20 years any day now...

You're basically saying that since open source projects can be reused by others, the people making closed source projects shouldn't complain when the same thing happens to them.

Everyone posting on Stack Overflow knew it would be public and free. Book authors put an explicit copyright notice, which includes derivations of their work.

Re: Who's afraid of Chinese models?

#912

Post by Jackpillar »

procgen wrote: post #636
nixon_why69 wrote: post #586

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> pretend like history is in favor of China. Are you saying that history has a verdict, and it disfavors particular 3000 year old cultures?

> 3,000 year-old cultures Like Western culture?

So you agree - it would be stupid to say "pretend like history is in favor of X civilization"

Re: Who's afraid of Chinese models?

#913

Post by sarchertech »

nixon_why69 wrote: post #879
sarchertech wrote: post #878

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure they are building solar infrastructure. But they’re also still increasing co2 emissions. If you are the autocratic leader with almost total control of 1/3 of the worlds co2, and you believe that climate change is an existential threat, you wouldn’t be increasing co2 emissions. Xi could reduce co2 emissions with the stroke of a pen. So he obviously doesn’t think it’s that much of a threat.

Xi could theoretically reduce GDP and associated emissions with the stroke of a pen[1], and so could most legislatures. None are doing it. Building up alternative energy is a work in progress for anyone, they're leaders on electric cars which is good but they won't get off coal until they (or someone) figures out managing a grid with 80%+ of mostly-intermittent inputs from wind and solar. [1] Not really, for the same…

> Xi could theoretically reduce GDP and associated emissions with the stroke of a pen

He showed he was willing to do that during Covid. If he was really convinced climate change was a problem he could clearly do more than he is.

It’s not a prisoners dilemma issue with Xi like it is with most countries. He controls 1/3 of global emissions. He is probably the only person on the planet who can personally reduce future temperatures.

Re: Who's afraid of Chinese models?

#914

Post by mapontosevenths »

analyte123 wrote: post #307
zx8080 wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Links please.

IEA’s chart for “final electricity price for large industrial customers in energy-intensive industries” [1] shows the US cheaper than China, but this is using data from Texas as representative. I’m not sure how they back this representation up, or how different this is from GPP “business” prices. So “most places in the US cheaper than China” may be wrong, but certain states or regions are at least competitive. [1] ht…

This is very misleading and almost certainly deliberately so.

Texas is the only is State that doesn't participate in the national grid (90% anyhow). Their prices are lower because they dont abide by the regulations that they would be required to if they did. Like weather proofing infrastructure.

This is also why their grid crumbles every time it gets cold, or hot, or... Tuesday.

See the 2021 grid failure for a particularly bad example. In that instance somewhere between 250-700 Texans died to keep their prices low.[0]

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Texas_power_crisis

Re: Who's afraid of Chinese models?

#916

Post by abalashov »

inigyou wrote: post #887
inglor_cz wrote: post #752

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Russian propaganda is more along the lines of "Ukraine is an illegitimate state led by Nazis and drug junkies, they steal children's organs and sell them to the West, cook up dangerous viruses in their labs and prepared to attack innocent Russia, hence they have to be crushed, which our glorious Russian power will soon accomplish with mighty Oreshniks that have no parallel anywhere". There is way too many mixed m…

hey what a coincidence that's basically the exact same thing our own government tells us about Palestine

Yes, but we have far fewer reasons to think otherwise, since we don't know anything--if you're talking about Americans.

Re: Who's afraid of Chinese models?

#918

Post by DrScientist »

ballon_monkey wrote: post #233

The 2 things people need to remember: 1) China can (and does) use the models to influence the west. They train in false information about Taiwan and Hong Kong. Or pretend like history is in favor of China. 2) Ignoring the models containing false information, they are incredible. But you should be scared of running inference via the model creators directly. If you think your data is safe compared to running it via mod…

All models/data sources are biased - you need to understand inherent biases in any data source.

The first point is a strawman - these models are not going to be used to set foreign policy on Taiwan - it's to write code etc.

Likewise risk of data exfiltration and misuse isn't model specific. Indeed it's not even the biggest data risk - there are much larger risks from the data we know companies like Meta and Google already collect.

Bottom line - a model you can download and run on your own private infrastructure is always going to be safer than anything accessed over the internet - as in that case it's not even just the hosting service that's the issue.

Re: Who's afraid of Chinese models?

#919

Post by throw1234567891 »

ballon_monkey wrote: post #233

The 2 things people need to remember: 1) China can (and does) use the models to influence the west. They train in false information about Taiwan and Hong Kong. Or pretend like history is in favor of China. 2) Ignoring the models containing false information, they are incredible. But you should be scared of running inference via the model creators directly. If you think your data is safe compared to running it via mod…

It's incredible how accurate this is towards US models:

> The 2 things people need to remember:

> 1) USA can (and does) use the models to influence the rest of the planet, and put political pressure. They train on stolen data, hide information, gate keep, who knows what they're hiding. In favor of the USA, nevertheless.

> 2) Ignoring the models containing false information, they are incredible. But you should be scared of running inference via the model creators directly. If you think your data is safe compared to running it via model providers in China ( either frontier or model hosts like z.ai ) then please let me know your bank details so I can poke around.

Re: Who's afraid of Chinese models?

#920

Post by throw1234567891 »

theptip wrote: post #673
w4lker wrote: post #451

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://thereallo.dev/blog/claude-code-prompt-steganography Why should I trust a US company more than a Chinese one?

Your exhibit is an obvious anti-distillation technique. You can expect far worse from less-regulated companies.

Neither Anthropic nor OpenAI are regulated in the "regulated business" meaning.
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