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Judge approves $1.5B Anthropic settlement for pirated books used to train Claude

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Re: Judge approves $1.5B Anthropic settlement for pirated books used to train Claude

#361

Post by archerx »

inigyou wrote: post #316
archerx wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He wasn’t just some famous redditor. Aaron Swartz helped create Reddit and invented RSS. If I put my conspiracy theory hat one and I always get piled on for this theory in other online communities but I think it could be possible. The theory is I think Aaron found some very dark stuff while exploring the MIT private networks, things that he was not supposed to see and could be very damaging to a lot people if they we…

Aaron Swartz founded Reddit in the same way that Elon Musk founded Tesla, but without the money.

Right with his tech skills instead of money.

Re: Judge approves $1.5B Anthropic settlement for pirated books used to train Claude

#362

Post by antonvs »

dataflow wrote: post #169
tzs wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alsup is an interesting judge. He has handled several important tech cases, such as Oracle v Google, and Waymo v Uber. He's also a longtime hobbyist programmer working in BASIC, much of it in support of his ham radio hobby. Screenshots of his shortwave propagation prediction program here [1]. [1] https://www.theverge.com/2017/10/19/16503076/oracle-vs-googl...

He learned Java to understand the Oracle v. Google case better. His middle name is Haskell.

And his favorite food is curry.

Re: Judge approves $1.5B Anthropic settlement for pirated books used to train Claude

#365

Post by Morromist »

aetherspawn wrote: post #349
davidguetta wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

copyright is bullshit

Copyright is what stops someone from copy+pasting a book that took years to write, then selling it $1 cheaper than the original author on Amazon or whatever and making a margin 1 million percent higher than the original author. Imagine a society without copyright… only physically intensive jobs could make money because everything else would be pirated, ripped-off or free. Thus, only those who are financially independ…

That's oversimplifying things.

Copyright doesn't actually stop me from pirating a book or an mp3 right now. Heck, I'll just download a book right now. Bam. Done. Some things are so difficult to keep from being pirated, such a photographs, that saying the copyright system protects photographers strikes me as a bit silly. It does protect some commercial photographers if a magazine wants to sell their photo sometimes, but that's a very very small slice of all the photos in copyright that are being shared online right now.

Also there are other systems that might protect an author's financials. Off the top of my head I imagine you could do a netflix model where every citizen pays some taxes to consume intellectual property like a utility. Then the goverment finds a way to measure what is being consumed and gives each author a share based on the rate of consumption. In fact the "intellegence is a ultility" ramblings of Sam Altmen sort-of point in this direction. But that's just one idea thought up early in the morning when its too hot to sleep properly. I'm sure there are many others.

Re: Judge approves $1.5B Anthropic settlement for pirated books used to train Claude

#366

Post by runroader »

pj_mukh wrote: post #291
runroader wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Humans are not computers. Humans are not a service. In the end, all laws are made up rules and can absolutely be written to have different outcomes and restrictions based on if a human is doing something or if a program is doing it.

Real question, if an LLM shouldn't be able to remix someone's written work, why should a robot be able to build a chair that kinda looks like a chair a carpenter built that one time? The carpenter was a human, and humans are not a service. Why this distinction only for intellectual work?

Honestly? I don’t know, I don’t have a whole coherent ethos about LLMs.

But I do know someone definitely paid for the textbooks I used when learning in school.

Re: Judge approves $1.5B Anthropic settlement for pirated books used to train Claude

#367

Post by 7952 »

smolder wrote: post #338
phire wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This settlement has basically nothing to do with LLMs. At least not as far as the courts are concerned. Alsup ruled [0] that feeding a book into an LLM is transformative and counts as fair use. Especially when they purchased a physical copy of the book, scanned it, and destroyed the original. But if I'm reading the ruling correctly, Anthropic might have been fine even with feeding pirated books into their LLM (as lon…

As far as I'm concerned, the courts are wrong, and training on ill gotten copyrighted material is not fair use. Given the clear value of highly trained LLMs, the investment they have taken on, and the amount of disruption to the existing economy they stand to make, in a just world, the people who created the training data deserve some level of compensation. I think, in the US, they are very afraid of falling behind C…

I think this posture is hugely beneficial to China if they can commoditise the hardware.

Re: Judge approves $1.5B Anthropic settlement for pirated books used to train Claude

#368

Post by kevin_thibedeau »

eloisius wrote: post #307
pj_mukh wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Real question, if an LLM shouldn't be able to remix someone's written work, why should a robot be able to build a chair that kinda looks like a chair a carpenter built that one time? The carpenter was a human, and humans are not a service. Why this distinction only for intellectual work?

For the same reason that you can make a similar-looking chair, but you can’t distribute a fuzzy copy of Star Wars. The char isn’t a copyrighted work.

Furniture designs can be covered by varying intellectual property laws.

Re: Judge approves $1.5B Anthropic settlement for pirated books used to train Claude

#369

Post by klabb3 »

davidguetta wrote: post #343
smolder wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far as I'm concerned, the courts are wrong, and training on ill gotten copyrighted material is not fair use. Given the clear value of highly trained LLMs, the investment they have taken on, and the amount of disruption to the existing economy they stand to make, in a just world, the people who created the training data deserve some level of compensation. I think, in the US, they are very afraid of falling behind C…

copyright is bullshit

This reminds me of this argument with libertarians/ancaps:

A: rich people pay less % in taxes than wage workers, we should close the loopholes

B: but taxes are immoral to begin with

A: ok, but can we do something now about the unequal enforcement? Unrealized gains, tax havens, trusts, fake charities, etc?

B: well a society based on property rights… ackhully you should read this book by Mises/Rothbard/Rand

Re: Judge approves $1.5B Anthropic settlement for pirated books used to train Claude

#370

Post by chirau »

phire wrote: post #293
sashank_1509 wrote: post #200

A one time payment like 1.5B doesn’t do anything. There needs to be a royalty payment based on if the AI regurgitates existing ideas. That is probably the correct way to legislate this. If anything a human does can instantly be copied by an LLM, and then sent to all its subscribers, things need to change

This settlement has basically nothing to do with LLMs. At least not as far as the courts are concerned. Alsup ruled [0] that feeding a book into an LLM is transformative and counts as fair use. Especially when they purchased a physical copy of the book, scanned it, and destroyed the original. But if I'm reading the ruling correctly, Anthropic might have been fine even with feeding pirated books into their LLM (as lon…

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