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Judge approves $1.5B Anthropic settlement for pirated books used to train Claude

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Re: Judge approves $1.5B Anthropic settlement for pirated books used to train Claude

#201

Post by Saline9515 »

duped wrote: post #135
blackqueeriroh wrote: post #120

For anyone who thinks the problem is Anthropic, I want you all to know that most authors make less than the median income. Most make less than $20,000 a year, because publishing houses give authors an advance, and then authors must pay back that entire advance in sales before they see a dollar of profit from their work. Most never do. Maybe publishers should JUST pay authors WELL, and get a book every 2-3 years. http…

The problem is the plagiarism

I don't think so Anthropic models are not used to distribute fake copies of books. Excerpts, maybe, but that's fair use.

Re: Judge approves $1.5B Anthropic settlement for pirated books used to train Claude

#202

Post by markdown »

dyauspitr wrote: post #162
theplumber wrote: post #72

But why not jail like Kim Dotcom? And why no Feds jumping on Dario’s window? They are not only pirating, they also resell it!

Because no one wants that. They’re offering incredible value for what they took.

Aaron Swartz also intended to offer incredible value for what he took, AND for no personal profit.

Re: Judge approves $1.5B Anthropic settlement for pirated books used to train Claude

#203

Post by simianwords »

penguin_booze wrote: post #192
driverdan wrote: post #70

Judge Alsup issued the original order that determined they were liable for piracy but that training LLMs on books was fair use. It's worth reading if you're interested in the topic. https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/69058235/231/bartz-v-an...

So, continuing to profit--forever--from someone's else work, at scale, without their prior consent, is fair use? It's funny that crimes can be settled in cash. IOW, everything has a price; and the price is always right. Settlement ought to be the euphemism for blood money. In addition to the settlement, what I'd consider fair is to have these companies pay royalties in perpetuity. Of course, that's not tractable.

Why do they need prior consent? What sort of rent seeking do you want?

Re: Judge approves $1.5B Anthropic settlement for pirated books used to train Claude

#205

Post by shakna »

penguin_booze wrote: post #192
driverdan wrote: post #70

Judge Alsup issued the original order that determined they were liable for piracy but that training LLMs on books was fair use. It's worth reading if you're interested in the topic. https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/69058235/231/bartz-v-an...

So, continuing to profit--forever--from someone's else work, at scale, without their prior consent, is fair use? It's funny that crimes can be settled in cash. IOW, everything has a price; and the price is always right. Settlement ought to be the euphemism for blood money. In addition to the settlement, what I'd consider fair is to have these companies pay royalties in perpetuity. Of course, that's not tractable.

> So, continuing to profit--forever--from someone's else work, at scale, without their prior consent, is fair use?

No, that's what they got in trouble for - a lack of consent.

If the author consents, it would have been fine. If they bought the books, then it is fine. Digitisation through destruction, like most book scanning systems. As long as the original work is destroyed during the process, and you actually paid for it, then it is fair use.

If it regurgitates, then the author can sue you again. So you are incentivised to make damn sure it doesn't. That's not covered by fair use.

Its only if the original cannot be accessed anymore, and you paid to get the original. Both must be true, for fair use to hold.

Re: Judge approves $1.5B Anthropic settlement for pirated books used to train Claude

#206

Post by bigbuppo »

dyauspitr wrote: post #162
theplumber wrote: post #72

But why not jail like Kim Dotcom? And why no Feds jumping on Dario’s window? They are not only pirating, they also resell it!

Because no one wants that. They’re offering incredible value for what they took.

Yeah, man, sure they cleaned out the vault, but the valuable insights gained for how to keep it from happening again are priceless!

Re: Judge approves $1.5B Anthropic settlement for pirated books used to train Claude

#207

Post by sdenton4 »

penguin_booze wrote: post #192
driverdan wrote: post #70

Judge Alsup issued the original order that determined they were liable for piracy but that training LLMs on books was fair use. It's worth reading if you're interested in the topic. https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/69058235/231/bartz-v-an...

So, continuing to profit--forever--from someone's else work, at scale, without their prior consent, is fair use? It's funny that crimes can be settled in cash. IOW, everything has a price; and the price is always right. Settlement ought to be the euphemism for blood money. In addition to the settlement, what I'd consider fair is to have these companies pay royalties in perpetuity. Of course, that's not tractable.

I dunno, ever used a thing you learned from a textbook in your job? Did you have to continue paying for the copy of that knowledge speed on your brain? No, because that's not what copyright is about.

Learning from and building on previous work is civilization. Copyright maximalism is a plague.

Re: Judge approves $1.5B Anthropic settlement for pirated books used to train Claude

#208

Post by yard2010 »

theplumber wrote: post #72

But why not jail like Kim Dotcom? And why no Feds jumping on Dario’s window? They are not only pirating, they also resell it!

This sends a clear message and it echoes the "you can't solve a societal problem with tech" comment from the other thread - there is a right way and a wrong way of breaking the law. It's not that you have to keep the law, you just need to break it in the way that the consequences can be contained.

I think it's just a matter of time until everyone learns this. And then it will be the end of the slowly dying liberal democracies.

Re: Judge approves $1.5B Anthropic settlement for pirated books used to train Claude

#209

Post by yard2010 »

koolba wrote: post #102
theplumber wrote: post #72

But why not jail like Kim Dotcom? And why no Feds jumping on Dario’s window? They are not only pirating, they also resell it!

Kill a man you’re a murderer. Kill a thousand, you’re a conqueror.

I harass the sea with my tiny boat and am called a pirate, you do it with a great fleet and are called a king.

Re: Judge approves $1.5B Anthropic settlement for pirated books used to train Claude

#210

Post by dyauspitr »

bigbuppo wrote: post #206
dyauspitr wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because no one wants that. They’re offering incredible value for what they took.

Yeah, man, sure they cleaned out the vault, but the valuable insights gained for how to keep it from happening again are priceless!

I want it to happen again. Copyright is important but I want someone that does tremendous good to be able to fall into a grey area where they’re given a free pass. But only on a case by case basis. Keep the lines fuzzy. That way we get to defend copyright but someone extraordinary also has a ray of hope of getting away with subverting it.
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