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Who's afraid of Chinese models?

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Re: Who's afraid of Chinese models?

#891

Post by rikima_ »

ballon_monkey wrote: post #233

The 2 things people need to remember: 1) China can (and does) use the models to influence the west. They train in false information about Taiwan and Hong Kong. Or pretend like history is in favor of China. 2) Ignoring the models containing false information, they are incredible. But you should be scared of running inference via the model creators directly. If you think your data is safe compared to running it via mod…

i'm also influenced by claude every single day with its constant preaching about certain values.

Re: Who's afraid of Chinese models?

#892

Post by itake »

culi wrote: post #883
throw64259 wrote: post #871

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ICJ has not concluded anything. The ICC has not concluded anything - and it’s not even about genocide. It’s also the only known case in modern times where the prosecution officially started before the alleged crimes being prosecuted have been committed. IAGS was 120 people out of an association of 500 that anyone can join. It’s trivial to see that the UN is strongly biased by just taking one look at the data here…

Are you even responding to my comment?? I did not say ICJ concluded. The investigation is ongoing. They said Israel's actions are consistent with genocide. I did not say the ICC is concluded either. I just said they issued arrest warrants for war criminals Netanyahu and Gallant. That's a fact that you're avoiding. Also yeah ofc the ICC isn't the one who charges genocide. They charge for individual war crimes. That's…

This is what you said:

> It's objectively, legally speaking, a genocide.

This is in direct disagreement when your comment above how, legally speaking, the investigation is ongoing.

Re: Who's afraid of Chinese models?

#893

Post by throwaway2037 »

speedstyle wrote: post #764
WarmWash wrote: post #683

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Agree, China believes in Climate change and are at least taking steps to address it. China brought 80GW of new coal power online last year. The US added 0, and plans to add 3GW next year (we all know why). China doesn't care about climate change, they care about energy independence, and conveniently have very little natural fossil fuels besides coal. Which they heavily mine and utilize.

They commissioned 78 GW of new capacity in 2025, but actual coal-fired generation fell slightly (by 90 TWh, ie 10 GW). It might rise again, but it's expected to peak by 2027–28. And of course they added 440 GW of renewable capacity, 64% of global installations. I certainly agree there's other motives (renewables even net them significant trade, like EVs) but it's not as though 'caring about' climate impacts requires…

Woah, I am blown away by these numbers. I did some research using ChatGPT. A coal power plant called Guoneng Qingyuan Power Station is 4GW in total size. (It added 2GW of capacity last year.) Normally, 1GW is considered a large coal power plant by itself. This is a massive plant!

Geolocated here: https://www.google.com/maps/place/24%C2%B024'57.0%22N+113%C2...

I asked ChatGPT how many coal train cars are required per year to fuel this 4GW plant: About 200 coal train cars per day. That is staggering! It is about 5.25 million tons of coal per year. Multiple that by twenty and that only covers new capacity added last year. It is depressing to see these numbers.

Re: Who's afraid of Chinese models?

#894

Post by culi »

itake wrote: post #892
culi wrote: post #883

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you even responding to my comment?? I did not say ICJ concluded. The investigation is ongoing. They said Israel's actions are consistent with genocide. I did not say the ICC is concluded either. I just said they issued arrest warrants for war criminals Netanyahu and Gallant. That's a fact that you're avoiding. Also yeah ofc the ICC isn't the one who charges genocide. They charge for individual war crimes. That's…

This is what you said: > It's objectively, legally speaking, a genocide. This is in direct disagreement when your comment above how, legally speaking, the investigation is ongoing.

The United Nations officially declared it a genocide. The fact that the investigation is ongoing doesn't mean you can't have conclusions along the way.

Re: Who's afraid of Chinese models?

#895

Post by itake »

culi wrote: post #894
itake wrote: post #892

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what you said: > It's objectively, legally speaking, a genocide. This is in direct disagreement when your comment above how, legally speaking, the investigation is ongoing.

The United Nations officially declared it a genocide. The fact that the investigation is ongoing doesn't mean you can't have conclusions along the way.

a 3 person committee's investigation is not a United Nation's ruling.

Re: Who's afraid of Chinese models?

#896

Post by [deleted] »

shimman wrote: post #853
jayd16 wrote: post #776

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Whataboutism" or "whataboutery" (as in, "but what about X?") refers to the propaganda strategy of responding to an accusation with a counter-accusation instead of offering an explanation or defense against the original accusation. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism This is a counter accusation and not a defense, ergo, whataboutism.

No, it would be whataboutism to say something like "but in America you extrajudicially kill citizens for protesting the government." It's not whataboutism to talk about the same subject in the context of a different government. In this case LLM corporations. All you're doing is deflecting valid criticism. It's not whataboutism to talk about how bad American corporations are to American citizens in the context of talk…

[deleted]

Re: Who's afraid of Chinese models?

#897

Post by robocat »

tcmart14 wrote: post #782
WarmWash wrote: post #683

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Agree, China believes in Climate change and are at least taking steps to address it. China brought 80GW of new coal power online last year. The US added 0, and plans to add 3GW next year (we all know why). China doesn't care about climate change, they care about energy independence, and conveniently have very little natural fossil fuels besides coal. Which they heavily mine and utilize.

From my understanding, yea they still stand up coal fire plants because world demand for Chinese manufacturing and the energy demand it creates exceeds how fast they can build reactors. So they build coal fire with the intention to replace that capacity with renewables later. Been awhile since I looked, but China has like 30-some odd plans for nuclear reactor construction with quiet a few of them having already broke…

World Bank said exports in 2024 were about 20% of China's GDP. AI said 30% of China's petrochemical usage is exported as embedded energy. You're right that it is useful to think in terms of marginal generation, where it is marginally used. But that is more difficult to measure than just making assumptions at the level of the economy.

Re: Who's afraid of Chinese models?

#898

Post by jayd16 »

aroman wrote: post #833
jayd16 wrote: post #694

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could run hundreds of agents in parallel and arguably that counts.

No, it wouldn’t. The hours in question are human experience, not that of the agent.

Why not? You have far more results to review.

If you run a model on slower hardware are you getting more experience? Surely its a factor of model output reviewed and not human time.

Re: Who's afraid of Chinese models?

#899

Post by bluegatty »

inigyou wrote: post #885
bluegatty wrote: post #807

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If all it took was 'copying the transformers paper' then why aren't there 1000 SOTA foundries?

cause you also need a trillion dollar supercomputer

So - read paper + 'compute' and you can make a trillion dollar company?

Re: Who's afraid of Chinese models?

#900

Post by bornfreddy »

bspammer wrote: post #431
bornfreddy wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Using a Chinese LLM will not put a Marxist under your bed. Interesting tangent - it might be taught to introduce stealthy backdoors in your company though. Maybe even across multiple PRs where each session puts a small chink in the armor, and together they allow unlimited access to the attacker who knows about them. After all, LLMs are mostly black boxes. How comfortable would you be running a Chinese compiler?

If that happens one time at any company, it would be discovered and reported on eventually, and people would never trust any Chinese model again. The motivation for China is clearly to prevent America gaining a monopoly on AI, not spycraft. They have much more effective ways to do the latter anyway.

It can be done so that it looks like a series of "oopsie" bugs. China (the same as US) has used spycraft extensively in the past.
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