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AI makes programming differently difficult

cacm.acm.org

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Re: AI makes programming differently difficult

#71

Post by gofreddygo »

bnfcl wrote: post #7

Quote of the main point in the article: In other words, the hard part moves from recall (“How do I write this?”) to judgment (“Does this actually make sense?”) This is very true. But to evaluate if it makes sense, you first need experience writing the code. I am glad I learned software development over 15 years ago, and not today. AI is a super power, but without the experience to guide it, it can go horribly wrong r…

"How can we dig a well here" and "should we dig a well here" are neither mutually exclusive nor sufficient in their own regard.

Cant answer should we without having done a lot of it before. Cant learn unless you actually do it and see the consequences through.

Re: AI makes programming differently difficult

#72

Post by skippyfish »

I always find it hilarious when these opinion pieces about the impacts of AI are AI-written (as is almost certainly the case here, a major trend in ACM and IEEE publications). Like, really? An LLM has a breadth of experience managing AI, and can recall it, and explain it to humans?

Re: AI makes programming differently difficult

#74

Post by nasretdinov »

Definitely not my experience. No matter the model, if I'm working on something important (and there is little reason on working on something not important) I do care about correctness and understandability. While LLMs are great for throwaway one-time code (although that's also debatable), they cannot compete with code written by a seasoned professional. No matter how many times I've tried delegating writing code to LLMs I've always regretted it in a few months' time, because it is more buggy and I don't really know what is happening there.

The future is using LLMs for what they are good for. What that is still being found out. I've had great experience with LLMs reviewing the code (matches with Primagean's ~50% accuracy at finding bugs, which is really good) and for explaining unfamiliar concepts to me.

I firmly believe that the code itself needs to be 100% organic, and if it's not and you're relying on LLMs to generate tons of code, you haven't built enough abstraction to make it unnecessary.

Re: AI makes programming differently difficult

#76

Post by orangedog »

runarberg wrote: post #30
asdfman123 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, that's definitely true... for now. The thing that concerns me, however, is that just a year ago it was only useful for doing things like reminding me how to read in a file. Now it's at the level of a competent junior, who can almost do the whole task from start to finish but needs a little supervision. All the AI companies are retaining the messages we're sending to their agents to train the next models. I would…

People were saying the exact same thing exactly a year ago. “Last years models were no good, but this year we can do anything; so what about next years models?” the people said in July of 2025. Well... Now we have next years models, and people are still saying: “Last years models were no good, but this year we can do anything; so what about next years models?” And I am pretty sure in July 2027 (if this whole thing ha…

Who is talking like this? Presumably the people looking forward to next year's models find some value out of this year's.

You seem to want it to collapse, but that's not the argument you person you're responding to is making.

Re: AI makes programming differently difficult

#77

Post by furyofantares »

lelanthran wrote: post #54
furyofantares wrote: post #9

It's true that there are new skills to acquire (and that those with talents for the old skills may be less talented with the new skills). It's absolutely not true that it "just" moved the difficulty around. If that were true then I'd be just as well off continuing to use my decades of programming expertise just as I always have; but the reality is I can get more done, and get better work done (depending on level of v…

> It's true that there are new skills to acquire What new skills?

Getting the most out of out agent. Knowing how to give it context that will cause it to succeed. Knowing what things it will succeed at and what it won't. Knowing how to tell when it's failing.

Figuring out when it's appropriate to fully wrap your head around the details of a solution, and when it's appropriate to let the agent handle that and only know a bunch of properties of the solution. Knowing when it's appropriate to try 10 things, throw them all away, then go deep. Knowing how to learn from these things so you can make something better, not just faster.

Re: AI makes programming differently difficult

#78

Post by bystander2026 »

I am tired of all these AI is so smart vs AI is not so smart. AI is a tool. It is like CNC machine tools or robotics in manufacturing.

How's about a test? Put all the smart AI researchers/developers onto an airplane that its software was entirely created by AI. Now tell that airplane to travel around the world with airborne refueling and land at an airport. When will this happen and how many of AI advocates will get on this autonomous airplane?

Re: AI makes programming differently difficult

#79

Post by georgemcbay »

asdfman123 wrote: post #17
mostlysimilar wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's where I've landed too. Maybe I'm just delusional and telling myself a comfortable story, but I think my ~15 years of experience building software by hand lets me utilize these robots in a way that people lacking it simply can't. I still absolutely loathe talking to them and using them. But I feel less scared about losing my career these days. Work wants me to use it, I'm using it at work. In my hobby projects…

Yep, that's definitely true... for now. The thing that concerns me, however, is that just a year ago it was only useful for doing things like reminding me how to read in a file. Now it's at the level of a competent junior, who can almost do the whole task from start to finish but needs a little supervision. All the AI companies are retaining the messages we're sending to their agents to train the next models. I would…

> UPDATE: I'm getting a lot of replies to this thread and while I'm not trying to be argumentative here, I have to ask if a lot of them aren't rooted in denial...

I do think there is a very common denialism that is rampant causing many people to believe on what is essentially faith that AI is going to get just good enough to be a perfect assistant to them, but then magically halt on progress right before it entirely replaces them.

And to be clear I believe LLMs are likely to plateau before they replace literally everyone working in software development, but I also think that a lot more than n% of developers believe they will be part of the n% who will survive unscathed, where n ends up being quite a small number.

Re: AI makes programming differently difficult

#80

Post by FinnLobsien »

snerbles wrote: post #69
FinnLobsien wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure this is true. And if an AI draft helps in creating quality writing, great! I was thinking more when it comes to stuff other people send me (like a freelance writer) and “editing” is basically writing the first draft because no cognitive effort has yet been spent on the piece

And the mechanical correctness is the hazard. To anyone used to essay assignments since time immemorial it feels intuitively done.

Yes! It has all the polish and flourish of something that has all the finishing touches, but none of the underlying structure your brain infers it to have due to its polish.
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