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Five US tech giants' hidden debts soar to $1.65T on opaque AI funding

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Re: Five US tech giants' hidden debts soar to $1.65T on opaque AI funding

#151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Iceland's banks were full of money from people in the UK. It's a lot easier to default when there only a small political and economic price.

Is everyone just glossing over the fact that the feds make a profit on bailing the banks out? Seems like a win win to take over ownership in the event of a bank failure.

If there was a reliable profit to be made, a third party would do it.

I suspect the real profit is made by also being in a position to adjust laws and rules to make sure your investment survives, as well as turning low rated bonds effectively into government bonds. All those things are at the expense of others in the bigger picture.

Re: Five US tech giants' hidden debts soar to $1.65T on opaque AI funding

#152
post #71

Well technically they don’t own the debt, the SPVs that own the data centers do. The giants just have long term commitments, but if shit hits the fan, it’s not the tech giants but the banks that lent the money to the SPVs that are at risk. This usually means all of us are on the hook.

Capitalists love to socialize losses

Heads I win, tails you lose.

Re: Five US tech giants' hidden debts soar to $1.65T on opaque AI funding

#153
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This the proof that guillotine is useful, if not to be used, to make the elite behave in way that avoid suffering it.

They think they’re immune. Even after Luigi, they still think they’re immune

[flagged]

Re: Five US tech giants' hidden debts soar to $1.65T on opaque AI funding

#154
post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For anyone old enough to remember attending bankruptcy/liquidation auctions of "dotcom 1.0" companies in 2000, 2001 or so and buying an Aeron chair, or similar, I really wonder what it will look like this time around. There was one point in time where only very slightly used datacenter cooling systems and diesel backup generators were selling for pennies on the dollar.

You'll be able to buy used H100s. One careful owner. Never overclocked etc. They'll be knackered though, unlike a good Herman Miller chair. :-) We might even be able to afford RAM again!

Unlike 2001, I'm also trying to imagine amateurs (or very small companies) trying to repurpose pieces of whole-rack liquid cooling systems, with varying degrees of possible success or catastrophe.

But I'll be holding out for the gently used one owner B300.

Re: Five US tech giants' hidden debts soar to $1.65T on opaque AI funding

#155
Oh man,this makes my stomach churn with anxiety.

It's a tough job market out there and it took 4 months to land job offers after being laid off.

I have a competitive offer from Oracle OCI with a team adjacent to this initiative and I am seriously considering it. How long do you guys think it will take to blow up (if it does)

To the experienced devs out there; would you take a 15% less offer from a medium sized company for job security?

Re: Five US tech giants' hidden debts soar to $1.65T on opaque AI funding

#156

Oh man,this makes my stomach churn with anxiety. It's a tough job market out there and it took 4 months to land job offers after being laid off. I have a competitive offer from Oracle OCI with a team adjacent to this initiative and I am seriously considering it. How long do you guys think it will take to blow up (if it does) To the experienced devs out there; would you take a 15% less offer from a medium sized compan…

Something other than Oracle for only 15% less? Sounds great.

Re: Five US tech giants' hidden debts soar to $1.65T on opaque AI funding

#157
post #82

It's hard not to be fatalistic about all of this now: In my mind, it's crystal clear that the investments will never be paid back. The revenue streams from all the companies involved don't add up. It must fail at this point. That means losses. Big losses for some. I assume that these off-the-books companies can quite literally be pinched off and the debt becomes the banks' problem, so the primary company, i.e. Meta,…

For anyone old enough to remember attending bankruptcy/liquidation auctions of "dotcom 1.0" companies in 2000, 2001 or so and buying an Aeron chair, or similar, I really wonder what it will look like this time around. There was one point in time where only very slightly used datacenter cooling systems and diesel backup generators were selling for pennies on the dollar.

IMHO I think the blast radius is implicitly contained. The major investments are in data centres, and the current investment cases impute near zero residual value after five years. Meaning that current valuations already assume "catastrophic" declines in equipment valuation. This is unusually clear-eyed and sober investment calculus in the tech space.

Further, unlike during the dotcom crisis, most of this spending is not driven by debt. It's mostly funded by the large companies which are producing enormous revenue and profit to pay for this. It's an order of magnitude different.

The major question mark on these valuations is the revenue assumptions, which can be reasonably criticised. A bear case here is that revenue growth is not as aggressive as projected, and valuations steadily decline over time. I don't see a likely scenario where the entire sector collapses. There is no apparent cascade failure mechanism. Of course, these mechanisms aren't always immediately clear prior to crashes.

We must remember that all of the models coming out of China are presumed to be distilled frontier models. Meaning a) they will always be x days/weeks/months behind the frontier models, b) they will never be quite as good, c) inference will generally be constrained by compute capacity (especially as the frontier studios have an incentive to capitalise on their moat), meaning Chinese studios will always be at a disadvantage.

The real wildcard here is self-improvements. It looks like we're already in the singularity, meaning a large proportion of LLM development is already done by LLMs. The development cycle on these might be months now, but it will be weeks soon. Days within a year, then hours, minutes, seconds, and milliseconds. It's impossible to predict what this curve looks like.

Re: Five US tech giants' hidden debts soar to $1.65T on opaque AI funding

#158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is everyone just glossing over the fact that the feds make a profit on bailing the banks out? Seems like a win win to take over ownership in the event of a bank failure.

If there was a reliable profit to be made, a third party would do it. I suspect the real profit is made by also being in a position to adjust laws and rules to make sure your investment survives, as well as turning low rated bonds effectively into government bonds. All those things are at the expense of others in the bigger picture.

3rd parties don't have the capital to front the losses. That's the whole point for the government to do it. The feds get the advantage that they basically get to force the existing creditors to sell at a loss. Presumably that's what everyone here wants. The existing owners to pay a penalty on the failure and for everyone else to remain whole if possible. Well that's exactly how a bank "bail out" works. So what's the actual problem? The only one's "hurt" are the owners who miss managed the business.

Re: Five US tech giants' hidden debts soar to $1.65T on opaque AI funding

#159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Iceland's banks were full of money from people in the UK. It's a lot easier to default when there only a small political and economic price.

Is everyone just glossing over the fact that the feds make a profit on bailing the banks out? Seems like a win win to take over ownership in the event of a bank failure.

The "feds" as we used to know them are going extinct. They are all being replaced by GOP apparatchiks, who care only to look good to the Leader.

Re: Five US tech giants' hidden debts soar to $1.65T on opaque AI funding

#160

Oh man,this makes my stomach churn with anxiety. It's a tough job market out there and it took 4 months to land job offers after being laid off. I have a competitive offer from Oracle OCI with a team adjacent to this initiative and I am seriously considering it. How long do you guys think it will take to blow up (if it does) To the experienced devs out there; would you take a 15% less offer from a medium sized compan…

definitely
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