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Five US tech giants' hidden debts soar to $1.65T on opaque AI funding

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Re: Five US tech giants' hidden debts soar to $1.65T on opaque AI funding

#101

Post by King-Aaron »

3form wrote: post #39
WoodenChair wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> These debts mean nothing if the US government actually views AI technology as being on par with the Manhattan project. They'll just bail them out or nationalise them. According to Wikipedia, the Manhattan project only cost $28 billion in 2024 dollars. That's a completely different order of magnitude compared to what we're talking about here. I imagine the size of the investment here would even be hard for the US go…

What percentage of the budget was it? I think that's also needed for a meaningful comparison. I've heard about the war taxes being high, but I don't know anything about the economy of the time otherwise.

I wasn't actually comparing it in terms of dollars for dollars between the projects, more the national security aspect and the probability of the government pulling whatever levers are necessary to keep it going.

Re: Five US tech giants' hidden debts soar to $1.65T on opaque AI funding

#102

Post by thin_carapace »

Lerc wrote: post #75
stymaar wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This the proof that guillotine is useful, if not to be used, to make the elite behave in way that avoid suffering it.

The guillotine requires being in control of the situation. It can only be used by those with the power to act with impunity. It's not fighting against tyrants, it's a declaration of an intention to be the next tyrants.

[flagged]

Re: Five US tech giants' hidden debts soar to $1.65T on opaque AI funding

#103

Post by thin_carapace »

dofm wrote: post #83
UberFly wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far-fetched as it sounds, I'd prefer elected officials and the justice system hold people accountable rather than psychotic murderers.

So would those guys in the boats in the Caribbean and the girls in that Iranian school, but the purpose of a system is what it does.

based

Re: Five US tech giants' hidden debts soar to $1.65T on opaque AI funding

#104

Post by LtWorf »

ManuelKiessling wrote: post #54
spaceman_2020 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They think they’re immune. Even after Luigi, they still think they’re immune

Well, I really wish that anyone, no matter their income level or job description, is immune against murder; or are we just throwing out civilization now?

Being denied medical care is murder as well.

Re: Five US tech giants' hidden debts soar to $1.65T on opaque AI funding

#105

Post by no-name-here »

lelanthran wrote: post #90
no-name-here wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Public anger is a very pre-smartphone thing. Public anger has gotten to the point that right-wing groups are pushing US legislation to outlaw it as “terrorism” [1], with the president of the right-wing American Heritage think tank pointing to examples such as “college students who took over campus quads” [2] and town halls with congress members getting shut down [3] - they say new laws are needed because public ang…

I gotta know, which of those specific points in your second citation do you have a problem with? The only one I can see having a problem with is "d. Subversion...". I expect that most voters welcome efforts that aim to stop other groups using violence and intimidation to suppress their speech or legal religious activities. The only problem with these proposed laws is the same problem with all existing laws - selectiv…

I was responding to the grandparent commenter’s claims that ‘public anger’ no longer exists - so whether you want to point to one of those examples, right-wing pushes to pass new laws labeling those impacting “civil tranquility” as domestic “civil terrorists”, or public anger seen across social media (Reddit, etc), my point is that the argument that public anger no longer exists seems unsupported.

Re: Five US tech giants' hidden debts soar to $1.65T on opaque AI funding

#106

Post by dev_l1x_be »

AznHisoka wrote: post #4
darth_avocado wrote: post #3

Well technically they don’t own the debt, the SPVs that own the data centers do. The giants just have long term commitments, but if shit hits the fan, it’s not the tech giants but the banks that lent the money to the SPVs that are at risk. This usually means all of us are on the hook.

As someone who belongs to “all of us”, i vote to not bail us out if shit hits the fan. No need to ask me when it happens, OK? No really, it’s nice of you but we really dont need to be bailed out. You are welcome :)

Is there a party that supports no bail?

Re: Five US tech giants' hidden debts soar to $1.65T on opaque AI funding

#107

Post by LtWorf »

lelanthran wrote: post #22
bayarearefugee wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don’t know if the public would be as accepting of a bailout for AI companies That's putting it mildly, IMO. An AI bailout would be a poison pill that would electorally doom whichever party was behind it for decades.

> An AI bailout would be a poison pill that would electorally doom whichever party was behind it for decades. One could only hope. In any case, in the short term, with AI having such a poor public-image story, if the Dems want to get back into power again they'd do everything they can to assure their voters that a bailout is not on the cards. This is the first single-issue voter concern that has really popular suppor…

You are assuming the democrats run on the elections for the purpose of winning them.

But the latest election made me doubt that is actually their goal.

Re: Five US tech giants' hidden debts soar to $1.65T on opaque AI funding

#108

Post by Frieren »

King-Aaron wrote: post #94
WoodenChair wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> These debts mean nothing if the US government actually views AI technology as being on par with the Manhattan project. They'll just bail them out or nationalise them. According to Wikipedia, the Manhattan project only cost $28 billion in 2024 dollars. That's a completely different order of magnitude compared to what we're talking about here. I imagine the size of the investment here would even be hard for the US go…

I just made a similar comment further down the chain here, but I frankly think the dollars and cents economics around AI is a moot point. Like the pentagon, they'll just pull money out of thin air, or from other departments, or just write things off like it never existed. I don't actually think the current administration, or the people behind it, actually care about real world economics anymore.

> I don't actually think the current administration, or the people behind it, actually care about real world economics anymore.

They are aristocrats. They are worried about accumulating more power then their peers, about alliances to gain that power, and about projecting an image of infallibility.

Aristocracy has never been known for caring for economics, technology or practical matters. They just care about power. Ruining nations, building useless vanity projects and going to war is kind of their main thing.

Re: Five US tech giants' hidden debts soar to $1.65T on opaque AI funding

#109

Post by hdgvhicv »

Aurornis wrote: post #27
walrus01 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I owe the bank $750,000 and can't pay, it's my problem. If I owe the bank $1,750,000,000 and can't pay, it's the bank's problem.

If you are a collection of 5 companies with annual net income in the hundreds of billions of dollars, the debt is actually still their problem. Everyone likes to repeat this tired cliche but skips all of the steps that would have to happen to get to that point.

If you have to pay $200k you can afford to spend $2k fighting it and hold it up a few days.

if Google had to pay a $2b bill they can spend $20m fighting it.

If they have to pay a $2t bill they can spend $20b fighting it

You can buy a lot more justice with $20b than with $2000

Re: Five US tech giants' hidden debts soar to $1.65T on opaque AI funding

#110

Post by embedding-shape »

londons_explore wrote: post #100
laughing_man wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is if large banks fail they take everyone else with them. We should have dealt with this in 2009, but for some reason it didn't happen. But money talks, I guess.

Iceland let it's banks default, and is now doing rather well. In fact, bank failure and then having the government only guarantee ~$50k of funds per person is a good way to hand wealth to the people and take it from corporations and the super wealthy.

> good way to hand wealth to the people and take it from corporations and the super wealthy

Hence the power that be try to prevent it best they can. In some cases, unsuccessfully (Iceland) and in others, a bit more successful (the US). But seemingly, they're only able to delay the inevitable, not completely prevent it.

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