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Who's afraid of Chinese models?

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Re: Who's afraid of Chinese models?

#391

Post by Omniusaspirer »

michaelt wrote: post #358
gmerc wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He’s glossing over the reason they are not: 90% profit margin of Nvidia. Power is only a small part, single digit, it will eventually matter but does not really today. What is the cost of AI? The single largest ingredient is Nvidia profit margin. Huawei accelerators are not as efficiency yet, but they don’t nearly extract as much margin. Why would future revenue stay with the labs given this situation? This whole thi…

> Power is only a small part, single digit, it will eventually matter but does not really today. Sorta yes, sorta no. A single 5090 consumes 450W - at Californian energy prices of $0.38 per kWh that's $0.17 per hour. And the card itself costs $4100 on amazon. So after 2.75 years running at full power 24/7 you'll have spent more on electricity than on the card. I would have thought most data centres being built today…

Anyone seriously building out AI infrastructure I presume is paying nowhere near $.38/kWh which is extortionate. Utility scale solar is closer to $.02-.03/kWh, then maybe around ~$.10/kWh for natural gas peaker plants.

Re: Who's afraid of Chinese models?

#392

Post by i2km »

Barrin92 wrote: post #74
thraway3837 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you or someone please explain several of the claims made in this tweet? "I am personally surprised the Chinese state continues to allow the open sourcing of models this good, given potential risks" what risks? I suspect the reason they are is 75% explained by strategic blindness/lack of AGI-pilledness (the CCP is very Yann Lecun-y in its views of AI). Confused what this means Open-weight models are inherently dec…

>Can someone in the know please use plain layman's terms to explain what this tweet is about? The Silicon Valley people like this openai guy, high on their own supply, are convinced they are building some machine god that will either bring about the end of the human race or utopia, they therefore cannot understand why the Chinese (or any other normal person on earth) are not afraid of chatbots and have other things o…

It's so bizarre. I keep on wondering where the root of this psychosis lies. Is there some common sci-fi literature that sparks these fears among the readers? Or is it all just latent religiosity and spirituality finding an outlet?

I mean, what an appalling way to live. To take themselves so seriously and simultaneously be terrified of what they're building. If we are really seeing the collapse of the bubble now, I wonder what's going to happen to these clowns when their AI god fails... what will they move on to next?

Re: Who's afraid of Chinese models?

#393

Post by littlecranky67 »

wbadart wrote: post #330
aurareturn wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cost of electricity isn’t a long term advantage in my opinion. Private companies will figure it out. What matters most is $/completed task. It does seem like OpenAI and Anthropic are winning here even with worse electricity rates. Perhaps it is made up by the efficiency of Nvidia and Broadcom chips, which China can’t get in mass. I do think that OpenAI and Anthropic are moving up in stickiness. My company has rallied…

Seems like most popular harnesses, including codex and Claude code, support Agent Skills (an open spec for skill formatting/ organization): https://agentskills.io/clients Which is to say, this isn't really a lock-in/ stickiness vector (unless maybe the wording itself of a skill is hyper-optimized for a specific model)

you can simply switch to z.ai/GLM-5.2 inside Claude Code by settings env variables in .claude/settings.json

Re: Who's afraid of Chinese models?

#394

Post by BoorishBears »

youre-wrong3 wrote: post #317
riskd wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s perfectly fine for the “West” to influence the world though, right? Or is it only a problem because… they’re Chinese?

Have you got examples of GPT/Claude/Grok influencing people?

https://i.imgur.com/3zWdJpz.png

vs

https://i.imgur.com/ta6g1d2.png

Re: Who's afraid of Chinese models?

#395

Post by sciencejerk »

phendrenad2 wrote: post #199
tristanj wrote: post #29

The people who are most afraid of Chinese models are the VCs who poured into Anthropic and OpenAI at astronomically high valuations. Anthropic is valued at $1.2T and OpenAI is targeting $850B. These astronomical valuations were built on the premise that these labs would generate massive profits from premium API pricing, but the Chinese labs are completely undercutting this strategy by releasing excellent open models…

VCs are just pass-through investors, the money comes from billionaires. And when billionaires face losing money, the whole system re-arranges itself to stop that from happening.

Yep! Maybe Chinese models are banned in USA and made completely illegal

Re: Who's afraid of Chinese models?

#396

Post by sciencejerk »

JSR_FDED wrote: post #298
alex1138 wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? Why is this not a concern?

Because you’re not that important. I don’t mean that in a mean way, just that if you’re a serious player in national security or something like that, you’re already not using Gmail, let alone ChatGPT.

You would be surprised...

Re: Who's afraid of Chinese models?

#397

Post by threatripper »

michaelt wrote: post #358
gmerc wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He’s glossing over the reason they are not: 90% profit margin of Nvidia. Power is only a small part, single digit, it will eventually matter but does not really today. What is the cost of AI? The single largest ingredient is Nvidia profit margin. Huawei accelerators are not as efficiency yet, but they don’t nearly extract as much margin. Why would future revenue stay with the labs given this situation? This whole thi…

> Power is only a small part, single digit, it will eventually matter but does not really today. Sorta yes, sorta no. A single 5090 consumes 450W - at Californian energy prices of $0.38 per kWh that's $0.17 per hour. And the card itself costs $4100 on amazon. So after 2.75 years running at full power 24/7 you'll have spent more on electricity than on the card. I would have thought most data centres being built today…

Also add electricity 50% on top for cooling the DC.

Re: Who's afraid of Chinese models?

#398

Post by sciencejerk »

TripolitianFish wrote: post #326
itake wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the USA, multiple political parties balance each out other. In China, there is 1 party. 1 view. 1 definition of the Truth.

I’d love to live in the USA you’re talking about friend. This is just oriental despotism paranoia, whatever cutsie repetition slogan you come up with is not a serious argument.

Bot account?

Re: Who's afraid of Chinese models?

#399

Post by marcus_holmes »

nunez wrote: post #351
marcus_holmes wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Models are not free. Downloading them is free. Running them is not. This has manufacturing economics, not software economics; the idea that they are "free" is an economic category error as it relates to their actual use I notice that the article, and this discussion, hasn't mentioned or considered local models. We can already run a low-spec model on a laptop. Because there is demand for this, it will improve and we…

This will matter A LOT more after Apple gets serious about integrating AI into the OS.

Agree, all those consumer ChatGPT accounts will be gone
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