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Five US tech giants' hidden debts soar to $1.65T on opaque AI funding

asia.nikkei.com

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Re: Five US tech giants' hidden debts soar to $1.65T on opaque AI funding

#51

Post by laughing_man »

AznHisoka wrote: post #4
darth_avocado wrote: post #3

Well technically they don’t own the debt, the SPVs that own the data centers do. The giants just have long term commitments, but if shit hits the fan, it’s not the tech giants but the banks that lent the money to the SPVs that are at risk. This usually means all of us are on the hook.

As someone who belongs to “all of us”, i vote to not bail us out if shit hits the fan. No need to ask me when it happens, OK? No really, it’s nice of you but we really dont need to be bailed out. You are welcome :)

The problem is if large banks fail they take everyone else with them. We should have dealt with this in 2009, but for some reason it didn't happen.

But money talks, I guess.

Re: Five US tech giants' hidden debts soar to $1.65T on opaque AI funding

#52

Post by harry8 »

throwup238 wrote: post #40
harry8 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Well technically they don’t own the debt Channelling the 1980s for off-balance sheet financing 101. From an economic perspective there is zero difference between borrowing to buy an asset and entering into a non-cancellable long term (equivalent to its economic life) lease for the asset. The first option causes an asset and a liability on the balance sheet, affecting debt ratios that appear in financing contracts an…

> Technically, from an economic perspective, it's debt. Isn’t the important difference that it doesn’t trigger bankruptcy on default? Economically it might not be that different but it has some significance legally because the courts have some fast tracks that trigger bankruptcies (IANAL but that’s my layman’s understanding). If they “default” in this case it will lead to lawsuits that they will almost certainly lose…

if you can't meet your obligations as and when they fall due, you're insolvent. Contractual specification from there.

Re: Five US tech giants' hidden debts soar to $1.65T on opaque AI funding

#53

Post by rmunn »

richardw wrote: post #24
King-Aaron wrote: post #13

These debts mean nothing if the US government actually views AI technology as being on par with the Manhattan project. They'll just bail them out or nationalise them.

If the US companies need trillions to barely beat Chinese companies spending billions, despite a multi year head start...

That's the difference between innovating and copying/distilling someone else's innovation. https://wccftech.com/chinas-kimi-k3-identifies-itself-as-ant...

Re: Five US tech giants' hidden debts soar to $1.65T on opaque AI funding

#54

Post by ManuelKiessling »

spaceman_2020 wrote: post #41
stymaar wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This the proof that guillotine is useful, if not to be used, to make the elite behave in way that avoid suffering it.

They think they’re immune. Even after Luigi, they still think they’re immune

Well, I really wish that anyone, no matter their income level or job description, is immune against murder; or are we just throwing out civilization now?

Re: Five US tech giants' hidden debts soar to $1.65T on opaque AI funding

#55

Post by harry8 »

vasco wrote: post #44
harry8 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Well technically they don’t own the debt Channelling the 1980s for off-balance sheet financing 101. From an economic perspective there is zero difference between borrowing to buy an asset and entering into a non-cancellable long term (equivalent to its economic life) lease for the asset. The first option causes an asset and a liability on the balance sheet, affecting debt ratios that appear in financing contracts an…

This is not true at all, leases appear on balance sheets. It's not the 80s anymore See Apple's FY2025 10-K, the leases are in page 42 under "Lease-Related Assets and Liabilities", which shows: Operating leases - Other current liabilities: $1,579 million - Other non-current liabilities: $10,911 million Finance leases - Other current liabilities: $538 million - Other non-current liabilities: $692 million Total lease li…

There's regulation update and work around. The point of channeling the 1980s is because it was simple for the 101 explanation. Investment bakers will structure it for you if you need it, inline with the current regulatory environment. At one time cross border leases were fashionable for tax purposes. I don't keep up with such things to know if they still are.

Re: Five US tech giants' hidden debts soar to $1.65T on opaque AI funding

#56

Post by bmenrigh »

mNovak wrote: post #2

Archive link: https://archive.ph/20260720174223/https://asia.nikkei.com/bu...

I'm in the US and I'm either getting NXDOMAIN or NOERROR (with no A record answer) back from every big nameserver I try (my ISP, Google, Cloudflare, etc.).

But a dig +trace archive.ph (which recurses all the way to the root locally) resolves it fine.

Is there some US-mandated DNS filtering I don't know about?

Re: Five US tech giants' hidden debts soar to $1.65T on opaque AI funding

#57

Post by UberFly »

spaceman_2020 wrote: post #41
stymaar wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This the proof that guillotine is useful, if not to be used, to make the elite behave in way that avoid suffering it.

They think they’re immune. Even after Luigi, they still think they’re immune

As far-fetched as it sounds, I'd prefer elected officials and the justice system hold people accountable rather than psychotic murderers.

Re: Five US tech giants' hidden debts soar to $1.65T on opaque AI funding

#59

Post by ben_w »

UberFly wrote: post #57
spaceman_2020 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They think they’re immune. Even after Luigi, they still think they’re immune

As far-fetched as it sounds, I'd prefer elected officials and the justice system hold people accountable rather than psychotic murderers.

Likewise.

I think it's a real pity that of the "four boxes of liberty", Musk has interfered with the first three: soap, Twitter; ballot, the lawsuits about million dollar rewards for voting; jury, selecting his jurisdiction, dismantling enforcement institutions via DOGE.

On the plus side, it's only "interfered with" rather than "completely eliminated".

Still, glad I have an ocean between me and the USA.

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