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Hackbright Academy Turns Women Into Developers In 10 Weeks

techcrunch.com

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Re: Hackbright Academy Turns Women Into Developers In 10 Weeks

#61

Post by SideburnsOfDoom »

eLobato wrote: post #30

Will sound like an asshole to many people, but: Hackbright Academy Turns Men Into Developers In 10 Weeks Hackbright Academy Turns Blacks Into Developers In 10 Weeks Hackbright Academy Turns Whites Into Developers In 10 Weeks Do we really need MORE discrimination? If I go ahead and try to join in, they will say "sorry, no men accepted"? That sounds equally as bad to me as "sorry, no woman accepted" or "sorry, no latin…

To me "Turns Women Into Developers" is an offensive phrase, as your other variations highlight - it implies that "Women" and "developers" are categories that don't overlap. However, it seems to be techcrunch's poor choice of words, not Hackbright academy's.

Re: Hackbright Academy Turns Women Into Developers In 10 Weeks

#62

Post by GotAnyMegadeth »

meaty wrote: post #7

10 weeks is not enough time to learn any skill. I wish people would stop these boot camps with ridiculous claims. We've had a couple of victims of these schemes apply to us and we've had to rather sadly tell them 'no way' and explain why. A lot of them have come from business and arts backgrounds and think it's an easy way to make quick cash (hint: it isn't - writing software is hard and laborious and pays crap for t…

I learnt leroc in 10 weeks (1 hour a week) well enough to dance at a free style.

I learnt bass guitar well enough to play 4 Guns N Roses covers at an open mic night and go through to the regional stage, in 8 weeks.

I learnt to pogostick in less than 4 weeks - bouncing 1 mile for sports relief without stopping.

I learnt to cook well enough in 1 week that I could could cook at least 21 different meals with a decent success rate.

I learnt Java/Android in 8 weeks and released my first app (721 downloads so far!).

I learnt to ride a bike in a weekend.

I learnt to drive in 1 week.

I learnt how to work behind a bar in one evening.

In fact I'd go as far as to say that (to the nearest whole percent) 10 weeks is long enough to learn any skill to a competent level.

Re: Hackbright Academy Turns Women Into Developers In 10 Weeks

#63

Post by meaty »

irahul wrote: post #51
meaty wrote: post #7

10 weeks is not enough time to learn any skill. I wish people would stop these boot camps with ridiculous claims. We've had a couple of victims of these schemes apply to us and we've had to rather sadly tell them 'no way' and explain why. A lot of them have come from business and arts backgrounds and think it's an easy way to make quick cash (hint: it isn't - writing software is hard and laborious and pays crap for t…

> We've had a couple of victims of these schemes apply to us and we've had to rather sadly tell them 'no way' and explain why. If you aren't accepting candidates, won't it be better to explain(if you do explain) what you needed which they lack instead of profiling(Victims of these schemes). You haven't run into comp sci graduates who aren't suitable for the job? > A lot of them have come from business and arts backgr…

We do indeed explain that to them and provide them with material so that they can improve rather than just kicking them out of the door. We're good like that. We just can't hire them.

Most programming jobs are very involved. Most vocal positions that are promoted on the Internet aren't. There are a hell of a lot of people churning out masses of code that runs things behind the scenes without so much as a though to expose it on TechCrunch or whatever nor follow any fashion or fad.

Re: Hackbright Academy Turns Women Into Developers In 10 Weeks

#64

Post by irahul »

meaty wrote: post #63
irahul wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We've had a couple of victims of these schemes apply to us and we've had to rather sadly tell them 'no way' and explain why. If you aren't accepting candidates, won't it be better to explain(if you do explain) what you needed which they lack instead of profiling(Victims of these schemes). You haven't run into comp sci graduates who aren't suitable for the job? > A lot of them have come from business and arts backgr…

We do indeed explain that to them and provide them with material so that they can improve rather than just kicking them out of the door. We're good like that. We just can't hire them. Most programming jobs are very involved. Most vocal positions that are promoted on the Internet aren't. There are a hell of a lot of people churning out masses of code that runs things behind the scenes without so much as a though to ex…

> Most programming jobs are very involved. Most vocal positions that are promoted on the Internet aren't. There are a hell of a lot of people churning out masses of code that runs things behind the scenes without so much as a though to expose it on TechCrunch or whatever nor follow any fashion or fad.

You are responding to arguments I didn't make. I don't know where are you getting the idea that my "programming jobs aren't very involved" is somehow related to Techcrunch or fads.

As for programming jobs being involved, true that I don't have any empirical data, but neither do you. You are going to continue arguing most of the programming jobs are involved, and I am going to continue arguing that 10 weeks of training is more than enough for most of the programming jobs. I would rather not discuss this "he said, she said" situation any further since nothing is going to come out of it.

Re: Hackbright Academy Turns Women Into Developers In 10 Weeks

#65

Post by irahul »

GotAnyMegadeth wrote: post #62
meaty wrote: post #7

10 weeks is not enough time to learn any skill. I wish people would stop these boot camps with ridiculous claims. We've had a couple of victims of these schemes apply to us and we've had to rather sadly tell them 'no way' and explain why. A lot of them have come from business and arts backgrounds and think it's an easy way to make quick cash (hint: it isn't - writing software is hard and laborious and pays crap for t…

I learnt leroc in 10 weeks (1 hour a week) well enough to dance at a free style. I learnt bass guitar well enough to play 4 Guns N Roses covers at an open mic night and go through to the regional stage, in 8 weeks. I learnt to pogostick in less than 4 weeks - bouncing 1 mile for sports relief without stopping. I learnt to cook well enough in 1 week that I could could cook at least 21 different meals with a decent suc…

> In fact I'd go as far as to say that (to the nearest whole percent) 10 weeks is long enough to learn any skill to a competent level.

I agree with most of your post. Learning Java in 10 weeks(5 days/week with about 5 hours/day) is more than enough. You sure aren't going to learn all nooks and corners, but you can learn a lot of general purpose programming and Java programming.

But "10 weeks is long enough to learn any skill" is as invalid as "10 weeks is not long enough to learn any skill".

Re: Hackbright Academy Turns Women Into Developers In 10 Weeks

#66

Post by irahul »

zedshaw wrote: post #44
eLobato wrote: post #30

Will sound like an asshole to many people, but: Hackbright Academy Turns Men Into Developers In 10 Weeks Hackbright Academy Turns Blacks Into Developers In 10 Weeks Hackbright Academy Turns Whites Into Developers In 10 Weeks Do we really need MORE discrimination? If I go ahead and try to join in, they will say "sorry, no men accepted"? That sounds equally as bad to me as "sorry, no woman accepted" or "sorry, no latin…

Well, what you're seeing is a backlash from the way programming has been taught thus far. For whatever reason all computer science education is geared toward someone who's already had about 6 years of self-education. Typically that meant that women, minorities, and the poor couldn't learn programming and so never went into computer science. Now what you're seeing is companies meeting the demand from these new groups…

> For whatever reason all computer science education is geared toward someone who's already had about 6 years of self-education.

I think exclusion, implicit or explicit, is bad. Especially when the course doesn't demand for any prerequisites still punishes those who don't meet the criteria. But I also think rewarding self-starters and not punishing them for being self-starters is a worthy goal. We really need two different courses for different groups.

Re: Hackbright Academy Turns Women Into Developers In 10 Weeks

#67

Post by meaty »

irahul wrote: post #65
GotAnyMegadeth wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I learnt leroc in 10 weeks (1 hour a week) well enough to dance at a free style. I learnt bass guitar well enough to play 4 Guns N Roses covers at an open mic night and go through to the regional stage, in 8 weeks. I learnt to pogostick in less than 4 weeks - bouncing 1 mile for sports relief without stopping. I learnt to cook well enough in 1 week that I could could cook at least 21 different meals with a decent suc…

> In fact I'd go as far as to say that (to the nearest whole percent) 10 weeks is long enough to learn any skill to a competent level. I agree with most of your post. Learning Java in 10 weeks(5 days/week with about 5 hours/day) is more than enough. You sure aren't going to learn all nooks and corners, but you can learn a lot of general purpose programming and Java programming. But "10 weeks is long enough to learn a…

You can learn Java syntax in 10 weeks, but you can't learn how to write Java that isn't a piece of shit.

Re: Hackbright Academy Turns Women Into Developers In 10 Weeks

#68

Post by MichelleGlauser »

plinkplonk wrote: post #20

Interesting that these guys train in Python/Django rather than Ruby/Rails, like the other 'bootcamps' do.

I'm a graduate of the most recent class. I've done a bit of rails, and I now understand why some programmers look at Rails and scorn the "magic." I think the point of technology is to make things easier for people, and since Rails makes it really easy for just anyone to make a site within minutes, that's great--for someone who doesn't want or need to go into anymore depth of understanding about what's going on behind the scaffolding. I'm glad we did Python--it's a good basis language.

Re: Hackbright Academy Turns Women Into Developers In 10 Weeks

#69

Post by MichelleGlauser »

smsm42 wrote: post #11
shurane wrote: post #6

Training programmers in 10 short weeks? Albeit these have experience with programming via codecademy, but 10 weeks? That is a fantastic turnaround and sounds a bit too marvelous. How does it work? This is just the first batch, but does it work consistently? This is fascinating. Do the programmers at Hackbright have any particular traits? Ambition, drive, or a ridiculous work ethic? Surrounding themselves with the hel…

Looking into the article, they don't start from zero: It helps that Hackbright students usually aren’t starting from scratch, but have instead developed their initial skills using Codecademy or by attending development workshops. After all, Phillips said, Hackbright is for people who are serious about programming as a profession, and you can’t decide that you’re serious until you’ve tried it out. So as I see it's for…

I think you would be surprised to know what level I started at. Everything I had learned about backend development was passed up within two or three days, and that Friday we went over HTML and CSS, which passed up everything I knew about that. Hackbright is, of course, no easy road. In fact, I can easily say it was harder than all of my AP courses in high school, harder than moving to a German city where I knew no one, harder than deciding to jump into the marriage boat (trust me, that was difficult), and harder than even the decision to make such an investment. And that's why it's worth it. Of course we'll all continue learning, just as every programmer does, but Hackbright was a fabulous kick in the right direction.

Re: Hackbright Academy Turns Women Into Developers In 10 Weeks

#70

Post by MichelleGlauser »

meaty wrote: post #7

10 weeks is not enough time to learn any skill. I wish people would stop these boot camps with ridiculous claims. We've had a couple of victims of these schemes apply to us and we've had to rather sadly tell them 'no way' and explain why. A lot of them have come from business and arts backgrounds and think it's an easy way to make quick cash (hint: it isn't - writing software is hard and laborious and pays crap for t…

I will remember not to approach any company where you work, Meaty, because of your lack of faith in people being able to dedicate themselves and learn quickly. It also sounds like you would never invest in any employee, which makes it clear that you would not be the right one to work with anyway. Developers are in demand so much right now that I have no idea how you find the perfect candidate. The market will not get any better without the investment of employers. I am by no means proficient after graduating from Hackbright on Friday, and I hope that every company I talk to knows that, but I have a wonderfully firm basis that will help me build an amazing career I never dreamed of. I think that is actually noble of the founders of Hackbright to change peoples' lives so quickly and wonderfully. It is my understanding that every programmer continues learning, and that is just what I intend to do.

I come from an arts background, and I am glad. A couple of years ago, I realized that though I was interested in technology and analyzing autobiographical internet writing, I was more interested in making the magic happen, but I didn't have the tools to do that and I was floundering. It's actually pretty awesome that we with "business and arts backgrounds" have been able to hack it with such different experiences.

I cannot even begin to describe how flustered I am by your silly comment that "it's an easy way to make quick cash":

1. I don't think it's easy at all. 2. Quick cash with San Francisco housing costs? Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. 3. I had no idea how much programmers make going in. It wasn't the money that motivated me; it was learning something that truly interested me out of which I could hopefully make a career. 4. It pays better "crap" than the crap I was getting paid before. With a Master's degree, managing experience, language skills, international experience, a project management internship, editing knowledge, and a boatload of other very valuable skills, I was making around $24,000 a year with no benefits whatsoever, and that was after about a year and a half of searching for a job. Try doing any kind of thriving on that. So even though money wasn't the motivating factor, I think we can easily agree that I have tripled or quadrupled my value as an employee. That doesn't sound like it "pays crap" to me.

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