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My falling-out with the rationalist community

lcamtuf.substack.com

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Re: My falling-out with the rationalist community

#11

Post by cogman10 »

vovavili wrote: post #2

This seems like an awfully uncharitable and cherry-picked treatment of a community of well-intentioned and occasionally eccentric disagreeable online nerds. You're effectively just noticing that a community that actively aims to overcome bias is not free from bias itself, but no one within that community would ever deny that.

I think the issue with the community is they take their eccentric beliefs as being gospel truths which can lead to truly unhinged and irrational beliefs and actions (see: the Zizians).

That's what can make the rationalist movement feel more like a religious cult and less like a bunch of eccentrics. As an outsider looking in, it seems like the entire movement is filled with just accepting priors with very little evidence for why those priors should be accepted.

Re: My falling-out with the rationalist community

#12

Post by twic »

vovavili wrote: post #2

This seems like an awfully uncharitable and cherry-picked treatment of a community of well-intentioned and occasionally eccentric disagreeable online nerds. You're effectively just noticing that a community that actively aims to overcome bias is not free from bias itself, but no one within that community would ever deny that.

It's not just that they aren't free of bias. They appear to incubate truly wacky stuff - Leverage Research [1], the Zizians, all the AI/x-risk stuff. I am not the only person to have noticed this [2]. There's something about their approach that appears to actually make people more susceptible to nonsense, not less.

[1] https://lydialaurenson.substack.com/p/the-inside-story-of-le...

[2] https://asteriskmag.com/issues/11/why-are-there-so-many-rati...

Re: My falling-out with the rationalist community

#15

Post by FeepingCreature »

twic wrote: post #12
vovavili wrote: post #2

This seems like an awfully uncharitable and cherry-picked treatment of a community of well-intentioned and occasionally eccentric disagreeable online nerds. You're effectively just noticing that a community that actively aims to overcome bias is not free from bias itself, but no one within that community would ever deny that.

It's not just that they aren't free of bias. They appear to incubate truly wacky stuff - Leverage Research [1], the Zizians, all the AI/x-risk stuff. I am not the only person to have noticed this [2]. There's something about their approach that appears to actually make people more susceptible to nonsense, not less. [1] https://lydialaurenson.substack.com/p/the-inside-story-of-le... [2] https://asteriskmag.com/issues/…

Raising existential risk from AI in the same sentence as "rationality demands we murder our landlord" is a bit weird a grouping.

Re: My falling-out with the rationalist community

#16

Post by throwawayffffas »

> Of course, as a rational person, you wanted to side with the scientists; if nothing else, it seemed like the winning move.

The rational person does not engage with the argument. Because there is nothing to be gained from the argument.

The winning move is not to play.

Re: My falling-out with the rationalist community

#17

Post by FeepingCreature »

cogman10 wrote: post #11
vovavili wrote: post #2

This seems like an awfully uncharitable and cherry-picked treatment of a community of well-intentioned and occasionally eccentric disagreeable online nerds. You're effectively just noticing that a community that actively aims to overcome bias is not free from bias itself, but no one within that community would ever deny that.

I think the issue with the community is they take their eccentric beliefs as being gospel truths which can lead to truly unhinged and irrational beliefs and actions (see: the Zizians). That's what can make the rationalist movement feel more like a religious cult and less like a bunch of eccentrics. As an outsider looking in, it seems like the entire movement is filled with just accepting priors with very little evide…

Consider a community filled with 100 people; 95 of them who don't take their eccentric beliefs as gospel truths and 5 who do. Those 5 will inevitably become the public face of the community when they make the news. However there is very little that the 95 could have done to stop them.

Re: My falling-out with the rationalist community

#19

Post by astrange »

FeepingCreature wrote: post #17
cogman10 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the issue with the community is they take their eccentric beliefs as being gospel truths which can lead to truly unhinged and irrational beliefs and actions (see: the Zizians). That's what can make the rationalist movement feel more like a religious cult and less like a bunch of eccentrics. As an outsider looking in, it seems like the entire movement is filled with just accepting priors with very little evide…

Consider a community filled with 100 people; 95 of them who don't take their eccentric beliefs as gospel truths and 5 who do. Those 5 will inevitably become the public face of the community when they make the news. However there is very little that the 95 could have done to stop them.

The entire point of rationalism is to take your own beliefs seriously and follow them as if you were a robot.

(Except that they don't claim them to be "their own beliefs" but instead call them "priors".)

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