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LEDs’ potential to save our night skies

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Re: LEDs’ potential to save our night skies

#151

Greenhouses here in the lower mainland of British Columbia have been devastating to the night sky. It's quite depressing how little society values the night sky, something that's been an important part of every human culture for longer than recorded history. I've taken friends out to thoroughly mediocre skies (Bortle 4-5) and they've been very impressed, because they're used to city lights (Bortle 9) where you can ma…

Are there places in EU that are dark and easy to visit?

Re: LEDs’ potential to save our night skies

#153
post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but one is a vastly smaller issue than the status quo issues. Starlink gets a lot of attention because it's new, and because it's run by a polarizing guy who sucks. Meanwhile, the airplane and streetlight situation has been destroying night sky photography for decades, to the point where photographers consult charts and have communities tracking the best times of years to minimize the hours of driving you have t…

It's an exponentially growing issue. Starlink's current fleet of ~10k is expected to grow to at least 42k. And since its been used for military uses, China and Russia have realized they also need their own competition. China's SpaceSail plans on launching 15k satellites by 2030. The EU's ambitions are much smaller than both of them, but if every developing nation continues to build their own platform, where does it e…

> where does it end

It still won't be as big of an issue for night sky photography, for reasons mentioned in the parent comment.

However, there are many other severe issues, of course. But for hobbyist and professional photography? Mitigable.

I can see a problem with 100x the current deployment, but the "other severe issues" kick in long before that, anyways.

Re: LEDs’ potential to save our night skies

#154
post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not that big a deal for MOST people. I was on navy ships transiting the Pacific it's as dark as it can get on deck and sure, it's magical and spectacular (especially the NUMBER OF SHOOTING STARS!) but even in the middle of the ocean 99% of my fellow sailors could not have given less of a shit. I'd sit out there for hours and they all though I was a weirdo for it. So, while amazing, most people don't understand o…

> Most people didn't care about dark skys in the first place and still don't. Most people were never given the opportunity to care.

Very true, but isn't that exactly what the parent is suggesting? That even a ship full of sailors given the opportunity to care, very few do?

Or are you suggesting that by the time they are in the Navy, it's after the age where one might be most easily encouraged to care?

Re: LEDs’ potential to save our night skies

#155

All the car headlights for new cars in Canada are LED and it makes driving at night painful and dangerous. So many times I’ve been nearby blinded by them and I can’t see anything ahead. And it actually physically causes me pain.

I'm optimistic this won't be a problem in 10-20 years (I agree that's a long time). We have the technology in matrix headlights that were banned in the US and basically in Canada up until a few years ago. I expect to see kits on Amazon in a few years for retrofits. Since they need a camera and some brains they will likely start at many hundreds of dollars but that should come down.

Re: LEDs’ potential to save our night skies

#156

For those in the northeastern US, I highly recommend a visit to Mesawisla in Maine, it's a national dark sky park with cabins and an AMC lodge that provides fantastic food.

argh, typo, too late to edit

Medawisla

https://www.outdoors.org/destinations/maine/medawisla-lodge/

Re: LEDs’ potential to save our night skies

#157
post #145
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Starlink gets a lot of flax for it but as an avid night sky photographer myself (IG: @dheeranet) who regularly goes to Bortle 1 parts of the world, I haven't found them to be an issue at all. 1. They are only visible when they are spinning up to orbit 2. They are too dim to desensitize your eyes, and are extremely easy to remove with the most basic of outlier rejection techniques; netizens often amplifiy outliers by…

Starlink has over 10k currently but has applied for at least 42k. And because it's now a US military technology, every other country is building its own. China is planning on launching over 12k satellites and Russia is working on their own. It's too much

Deep dusk will be quite a disco ball.

Re: LEDs’ potential to save our night skies

#158
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Starlink gets a lot of flax for it but as an avid night sky photographer myself (IG: @dheeranet) who regularly goes to Bortle 1 parts of the world, I haven't found them to be an issue at all. 1. They are only visible when they are spinning up to orbit 2. They are too dim to desensitize your eyes, and are extremely easy to remove with the most basic of outlier rejection techniques; netizens often amplifiy outliers by…

> They are only visible when they are spinning up to orbit > and are extremely easy to remove with the most basic of outlier rejection techniques; netizens often amplifiy outliers by max-stacking instead of outlier-rejected mean-stacking to make Starlink look much worse than it is my understanding was that they are a problem on much bigger scale than yours "one dude with mobile telescope (or maybe just a camera?)" su…

I don't see how this can be true especially if you have a fancy telescope tracking something, take 3-5 whatever many shots in succession and stack. It's astrophotography 101.

Re: LEDs’ potential to save our night skies

#159
post #23

I wondered if a city-wide synchronised Pulse-Width-Modulation of LED lights could allow astrophotography (or even naked-eye astronomy) to be possible again, with a filter synchronised to the off-cycle.

Using PWM to dim lights should be banned wholesale. Many people, me included, get crazy headaches from the worst lights and mild discomfort from the best ones. It's also completely unnecessary as non-flickering bulbs do exist and are readily available for the same price.

That's unrectified LEDs flashing at mains frequency, not PWM.

Re: LEDs’ potential to save our night skies

#160

Greenhouses here in the lower mainland of British Columbia have been devastating to the night sky. It's quite depressing how little society values the night sky, something that's been an important part of every human culture for longer than recorded history. I've taken friends out to thoroughly mediocre skies (Bortle 4-5) and they've been very impressed, because they're used to city lights (Bortle 9) where you can ma…

> It's quite depressing how little society values the night sky,

Considering how little value we put on far more important things (like the climate or biodiversity), I'm not really surprised.

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