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Who's afraid of Chinese models?

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Re: Who's afraid of Chinese models?

#31

Post by gerdesj »

jmclnx wrote: post #19

One thing I have not seen mentioned between Chinese AI vs US, population. China has a billion+ people that their AI can "study". Plus due to China's political structure, their AI has access to everyone's chats, comments and sites, scraping everyting. Here in the US, with 1/3 the population, the AI race was lost before it even began. Plus in the US, all companies and people are doing all they can to restrict AI from s…

"China will end up owing (sic) AI"

I think you hit the nail on the head - right there!

Re: Who's afraid of Chinese models?

#32

Post by airstrike »

tristanj wrote: post #29

The people who are most afraid of Chinese models are the VCs who poured into Anthropic and OpenAI at astronomically high valuations. Anthropic is valued at $1.2T and OpenAI is targeting $850B. These astronomical valuations were built on the premise that these labs would generate massive profits from premium API pricing, but the Chinese labs are completely undercutting this strategy by releasing excellent open models…

they will likely suffer enormous real losses too, not just paper, though not as enormous

for VCs, breaking even is losing

Re: Who's afraid of Chinese models?

#33

Post by nothercastle »

thraway3837 wrote: post #24
throwa356262 wrote: post #10

According to openAI's own @deanwball: Even OpenAI isn't buying this distillation talk: https://xcancel.com/deanwball/status/2078133895766114412#m

Can you or someone please explain several of the claims made in this tweet? "I am personally surprised the Chinese state continues to allow the open sourcing of models this good, given potential risks" what risks? I suspect the reason they are is 75% explained by strategic blindness/lack of AGI-pilledness (the CCP is very Yann Lecun-y in its views of AI). Confused what this means Open-weight models are inherently dec…

Chinese ai is bad. It’s slowing down progress and it’s so bad we called out the c word and asked for more regulation. Basically advocating for more government assistance to openai

Re: Who's afraid of Chinese models?

#34

Post by petilon »

altruios wrote: post #27
petilon wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

This is a silly perspective, inaccurate, and out of bounds framing. Public libraries, in this instance, is curated data from all the internet, obtained through not legal means (I don't have a problem with this other than lack of attribution, being copy-left). Just to be clear. But in answer to your incredibly leading and inaccurate framing... they are required (by their job title) to teach to those who who show up in…

If a professor learns from multiple books, generalizes from them and then shares his knowledge he is providing a valuable service. Versus someone who makes a recording of the professor's lectures and resells them to undercut the professor--that guy is not providing a valuable service.

Re: Who's afraid of Chinese models?

#35

Post by solumunus »

tristanj wrote: post #29

The people who are most afraid of Chinese models are the VCs who poured into Anthropic and OpenAI at astronomically high valuations. Anthropic is valued at $1.2T and OpenAI is targeting $850B. These astronomical valuations were built on the premise that these labs would generate massive profits from premium API pricing, but the Chinese labs are completely undercutting this strategy by releasing excellent open models…

The valuations are unjustified even at the prices they’re charging now.

They’re going to try their best to offload these investments into our pensions before the inevitable crash.

Re: Who's afraid of Chinese models?

#36

Post by throwawayffffas »

NooneAtAll3 wrote: post #11

I don't understand the premise in the beginning how is running servers supposed to be 0 cost, while running ai inferrence isn't?

A typical server that costs 10k to 30k to own and operate can serve between hundreds and thousands of requests per second of a traditional web application like facebook for 2-4 kW of power, the marginal cost of each request is effectively zero.

A single response from kimi k3 requires hardware that cost between 500k and 1m dollars up front and draw over 20kW. Each request costs at least 5% to 10% of the charged cost.

Re: Who's afraid of Chinese models?

#37

Post by solumunus »

wxw wrote: post #14

> It’s striking the extent to which Claude Code and Codex are proving to be quite sticky; whichever harness you start working with is likely to be the one you stick with, and that figures to be even more the case with non-technical users. My experience has been quite the opposite. I was using Claude Code almost exclusively this winter/spring and swapped to Codex earlier this summer. It took no time whatsoever to swit…

I think they stickiness is less about the difficulty of switching and more about the lack of desire. I’ve been using Claude since day one, it works well and I’m happy, I like it. I’m sure Codex is good too. Switching from one to the other certainly isn’t going to be a game changer, the discourse shows me the differences are marginal.

Probably the only reasons I would seek change are economical.

Re: Who's afraid of Chinese models?

#38

Post by Sol- »

OleksandrC wrote: post #6

The article makes a point about agent harnesses being sticky (the supposed moat). I have been building my own agent harness for a while, and I can tell with confidence that the harness almost does not matter, the entirety of the AI magic is the model itself. The harness can be almost barebones (like, for example, mini-swe-agent used for benchmarks), and yet the model still does the task just fine. So from my perspect…

For me, harnesses are mostly sticky insofar as the model providers only allow you to use their subsidized plans through their own harnesses, unfortunately. But of course switching model + harness is an option.

Re: Who's afraid of Chinese models?

#39

Post by jke_kang »

People seem to conflate "made in China" with "can't be trusted." id argue the bigger distinction is open vs. closed. An open model can be audited, fine-tuned, and technically run entirely on your own hardware. A closed model is basically "trust us."

Re: Who's afraid of Chinese models?

#40

Post by idle_zealot »

petilon wrote: post #34
altruios wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a silly perspective, inaccurate, and out of bounds framing. Public libraries, in this instance, is curated data from all the internet, obtained through not legal means (I don't have a problem with this other than lack of attribution, being copy-left). Just to be clear. But in answer to your incredibly leading and inaccurate framing... they are required (by their job title) to teach to those who who show up in…

If a professor learns from multiple books, generalizes from them and then shares his knowledge he is providing a valuable service. Versus someone who makes a recording of the professor's lectures and resells them to undercut the professor--that guy is not providing a valuable service.

What about a student attending lectures of other professors and generalizing what he learns from them, then going on to become a professor?
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