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That post never existed. Stop listening to that thing

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Re: That post never existed. Stop listening to that thing

#111

Post by xigoi »

Legend2440 wrote: post #101
SirFatty wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it strange? It's still true.

Just this week an LLM found a counterexample to math problem that's been widely studied for over a century: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacobian_conjecture >The conjecture was first stated for two variables by Ludwig Kraus in 1884[1] and then stated in full generality in 1939 by Ott-Heinrich Keller.[2] It was subsequently widely publicized by Shreeram Abhyankar,[3] as an example of a difficult question in algebraic…

Is there any evidence that the discovery was made by Claude and not by Levent Alpöge himself? The only sources listed in the wikipedia article are an X post and a news article that references the post.

Re: That post never existed. Stop listening to that thing

#112

Post by christina97 »

kaikai wrote: post #53
christina97 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn’t really get this point in the essay. What’s wrong with wanting servants as long as it’s done ethically etc and is not indentured servitude? The whole gig/services economy is just building this up piece-by-piece: you can now pick the set of household needs you want taken care of for varying levels of money; and practically everyone participates in one form or another. This is exactly a disaggregated 21st centu…

There’s a difference between servitude and slavery. Servitude is voluntary, slavery is not. There’s a gradation between them, and indentured servitude is somewhere in between the two. The “issues in implementation” are exactly where the ethical and moral issue lie.

I’m not sure if you are just repeating what I said or trying to add something? I was indeed implying that the ethical and moral issues lie in implementation, but my point was that I don’t see an ethical/moral issue with in abstract wanting convenience. There’s nothing wrong with wanting food delivered to your door or an LLM to do the boring tasks for you. The issues of slavery lie elsewhere.

Re: That post never existed. Stop listening to that thing

#113

Post by tptacek »

xigoi wrote: post #111
Legend2440 wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just this week an LLM found a counterexample to math problem that's been widely studied for over a century: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacobian_conjecture >The conjecture was first stated for two variables by Ludwig Kraus in 1884[1] and then stated in full generality in 1939 by Ott-Heinrich Keller.[2] It was subsequently widely publicized by Shreeram Abhyankar,[3] as an example of a difficult question in algebraic…

Is there any evidence that the discovery was made by Claude and not by Levent Alpöge himself? The only sources listed in the wikipedia article are an X post and a news article that references the post.

You think Alpoge just had the solution for the Jacobian Conjecture in his back pocket, just sort of waiting to deploy at his next gig?

Re: That post never existed. Stop listening to that thing

#114

Post by tptacek »

lloeki wrote: post #106
Legend2440 wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just this week an LLM found a counterexample to math problem that's been widely studied for over a century: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacobian_conjecture >The conjecture was first stated for two variables by Ludwig Kraus in 1884[1] and then stated in full generality in 1939 by Ott-Heinrich Keller.[2] It was subsequently widely publicized by Shreeram Abhyankar,[3] as an example of a difficult question in algebraic…

> If that won't convince you that LLMs do more than parrot existing ideas, you've got your head in the sand. It doesn't. In a nearby comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48983413 > In mathematics (including information science, CS) there are all sorts of problems that are essentially searches for a solution, and many have the property that the search is computationally difficult, but verifying the solution i…

I think when we're at the point of No True Intellectual Achievementing Smale's Mathematical Problems for the Next Century, everyone's premises have drifted too far apart for discussion to be reasonable.

Re: That post never existed. Stop listening to that thing

#115

Post by lloeki »

Legend2440 wrote: post #107
lloeki wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If that won't convince you that LLMs do more than parrot existing ideas, you've got your head in the sand. It doesn't. In a nearby comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48983413 > In mathematics (including information science, CS) there are all sorts of problems that are essentially searches for a solution, and many have the property that the search is computationally difficult, but verifying the solution i…

You do indeed have your head in the sand, that's for sure. You are desperately searching for ways to excuse it, to explain how it can't be what it obviously is.

On this matter I'm not searching for excuses, I am reserving my judgement; all we have is a tweet with the counterexample. We don't know how the counterexample was built nor found. It's just not useful to speculate.

Re: That post never existed. Stop listening to that thing

#116

Post by Legend2440 »

xigoi wrote: post #111
Legend2440 wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just this week an LLM found a counterexample to math problem that's been widely studied for over a century: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacobian_conjecture >The conjecture was first stated for two variables by Ludwig Kraus in 1884[1] and then stated in full generality in 1939 by Ott-Heinrich Keller.[2] It was subsequently widely publicized by Shreeram Abhyankar,[3] as an example of a difficult question in algebraic…

Is there any evidence that the discovery was made by Claude and not by Levent Alpöge himself? The only sources listed in the wikipedia article are an X post and a news article that references the post.

This is a very well studied problem. Well-known mathematicians have spent a lot of effort on it - Yitang Zhang wrote his entire PhD thesis on it back in 1991.

It is deeply unlikely that a random guy at Anthropic just happened to solve it so they could pass it off as the LLM's work.

Re: That post never existed. Stop listening to that thing

#117

Post by [deleted] »

grey-area wrote: post #6

> The worst part is that everyone who's decided to willingly lobotomize themselves is going to have to come to the realization that these things are full of shit. It'll have to happen one by one, and nobody else can make it happen for them. A fascinating dichotomy has become apparent between those who trust LLM output and those who don’t and don’t understand why you would. Surely if the machine you go to for answers…

[deleted]

Re: That post never existed. Stop listening to that thing

#118

Post by xigoi »

tptacek wrote: post #113
xigoi wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there any evidence that the discovery was made by Claude and not by Levent Alpöge himself? The only sources listed in the wikipedia article are an X post and a news article that references the post.

You think Alpoge just had the solution for the Jacobian Conjecture in his back pocket, just sort of waiting to deploy at his next gig?

He could have been paid by Anthropic to run a brute-force computer search. The counterexample looks short enough that, given a portion of Anthropic’s computing power and a sufficiently smart algorithm, it could be found by brute force.

Re: That post never existed. Stop listening to that thing

#119

Post by dcrazy »

grey-area wrote: post #52
wilg wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Making things up is only really a common issue on the non-thinking models which nobody should be using. The regular chatbots are Autogooglers and are very useful for research. This is just not a good argument anymore. Edit: Guys, why are we downvoting this? Does no one use like ChatGPT or Claude and understand how it works? Do you all think its regularly hallucinating links still? Is everyone on HN using like free si…

We know they are, and the author of the article cites the proof. LLMs do hallucinate, there is no way to make them not do it, because of the way they work.

A “hallucination” is an authoritative counterfactual statement returned as a response. Why do you think it is impossible to engineer an LLM (by which I am including tool usage and RAG) that catches and prevents such statements?

Re: That post never existed. Stop listening to that thing

#120

Post by ohyoutravel »

Legend2440 wrote: post #105
giaour wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many are openly working to create AGI with the aim of harnessing it to solve humanity's problems. Do you really think being able to command an entity with human-level intelligence would be morally equivalent to using a tractor?

It's just a computer program dude. It doesn't have feelings or morals or consciousness. It's a really complex machine, but it's still a machine.

Better delete this before it’s archived.
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