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Human mathematicians are being outcounterexampled

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11–20 of 265 posts

Re: Human mathematicians are being outcounterexampled

#11

That's a good thing. It saves people wasting time trying to prove something they now know to be false, so that they can move on to other things to prove, it's a more fruitful use of humanity's time overall at least in the field of mathematics.

proofs by counterexample are effective but ultimately unsatisfying. they get you to an answer but they don't help help you understand and bend you r mind into seeing how the math works and lead you on to the new set of questions.

and for now as long humans are going to judge of what counts as an elegant or illuminating proof, there's going to be work for human mathematicians

Re: Human mathematicians are being outcounterexampled

#12

mathematicians have been using computers for well over half a century, but this was after "bounding" the problem first and then running through the cases with a computer. Now AI is doing the first part. However, mathematicians are still needed at crafting prompts, and knowing where to look, still. The prompt for the Jacobian conjecture was obviously not random. the search space is too big to just try all the combinat…

This is the best take. Computers don't care about this stuff. A computer could make a movie, but only a human can appreciate it. We're a good team, and that's ok.

For now. I wonder if we will ever get to the point where the computer starts doing mathematics that we just can't understand. Surely there must be some limit to what we can understand (like how a gorilla will never understand prime numbers, there are probably limits to our intelligence as well).

Re: Human mathematicians are being outcounterexampled

#13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the best take. Computers don't care about this stuff. A computer could make a movie, but only a human can appreciate it. We're a good team, and that's ok.

For now. I wonder if we will ever get to the point where the computer starts doing mathematics that we just can't understand. Surely there must be some limit to what we can understand (like how a gorilla will never understand prime numbers, there are probably limits to our intelligence as well).

Mathematics only really matters insofar as humans can understand it.

Re: Human mathematicians are being outcounterexampled

#14
> The Jacobian Conjecture

Interestingly, Yitang Zhang of the twin-prime-conjecture fame spent 7 years working on the Jacobian conjecture under the advisor Tzuong-Tsieng Moh at Purdue. A key step in his thesis used a corollary of Moh's. It turned out that the corollary was incorrect. As a result, Moh refused to write any recommendation letter for Zhang, and Zhang couldn't find any teaching or research job and ended up spending years working at a Subway[1].

Imagine Zhag had ChatGPT in 1986 when he started working on the Jacobian Conjecture.

[1] Of course now this has become an inspiring story. That said, the story definitely invokes complex emotions. The best way to describe it is probably this Chinese poem, which I have no idea how to translate: 庾信平生最萧瑟,暮年诗赋动江关

Re: Human mathematicians are being outcounterexampled

#15
When I was in grad school, I had the opportunity to take a course from my adviser in which he discussed his current research and some open questions. It was a relatively accessible subject area and the questions were sometimes easy enough that we could meaningfully contribute.

On one particular Friday afternoon, he stated a conjecture that he hoped was true, and invited us to try to help him prove or disprove it. It was the sort of thing that he really wanted to be true; he liked things smooth and beautiful. I, on the other hand, hoped it was false as I like the weird and exceptional in mathematics. It was also the case that I had absolutely no command of the sort of machinery that one would use to prove such a thing, but I could certainly look for a counterexample.

I learned on Monday that he had spent the entire weekend trying and failing to prove it. I, on the other hand, had put all my energy into finding a counterexample and had one within an hour.

My single (quite small) contribution to mathematical research was a counterexample because it was all I could do. The story does illustrate that it can be helpful to have people with different tools, hopes, and motivations working on a problem, though. I was not, and will never be, even a shadow of that great mathematiciam I studied under, but on that occasion, I had reason to look in a different direction than he did.

Re: Human mathematicians are being outcounterexampled

#16

mathematicians have been using computers for well over half a century, but this was after "bounding" the problem first and then running through the cases with a computer. Now AI is doing the first part. However, mathematicians are still needed at crafting prompts, and knowing where to look, still. The prompt for the Jacobian conjecture was obviously not random. the search space is too big to just try all the combinat…

I don't think there was a 'prompt' for it, rather a long and dedicated work of a professional mathematician which involved LLM in some capacity. I'm sure the search step wasn't an ad-hoc script running in a Claude Code session (as somebody would naively assume), it was an optimized numerical code running in Anthropic's compute cluster. Note that details are not published yet and `__alpoge__` is officially working at Anthropic.

Re: Human mathematicians are being outcounterexampled

#17
A lot of this math is beyond my comprehension, but it often seems to talk of proofs of theorems. What I want to know is if we continue on this accelerated AI mathematics trajectory, will we eventually be discovering new forms of math that will in turn have some applications down the line in engineering or biomedicine etc? I guess what I’m asking is are we on the cusp of a huge breakthrough for humanity, or largely just proving what was already known?

Re: Human mathematicians are being outcounterexampled

#18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For now. I wonder if we will ever get to the point where the computer starts doing mathematics that we just can't understand. Surely there must be some limit to what we can understand (like how a gorilla will never understand prime numbers, there are probably limits to our intelligence as well).

Mathematics only really matters insofar as humans can understand it.

Not really, a theorem with a hard proof can have simple but important corollaries. It's also not unthinkable that theorems exist with proofs that cannot reduce to something simple/short.

Re: Human mathematicians are being outcounterexampled

#19

A lot of this math is beyond my comprehension, but it often seems to talk of proofs of theorems. What I want to know is if we continue on this accelerated AI mathematics trajectory, will we eventually be discovering new forms of math that will in turn have some applications down the line in engineering or biomedicine etc? I guess what I’m asking is are we on the cusp of a huge breakthrough for humanity, or largely ju…

> will we eventually be discovering new forms of math that will in turn have some applications down the line in engineering or biomedicine etc?

If we do it probably won’t be for a long while. We’re barely using math from a couple hundred years ago for most applied usage.

Re: Human mathematicians are being outcounterexampled

#20

That's a good thing. It saves people wasting time trying to prove something they now know to be false, so that they can move on to other things to prove, it's a more fruitful use of humanity's time overall at least in the field of mathematics.

It is also a good thing, because it helps to refine the theorem statement. At least, my humble experience in CS theory research is that I’d try to prove a theorem I want to be true, find a counterexample, refine the statement, and continue.

P.S. It helps that in CS lots of theorems are about either inductive or coinductive definitions.

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