Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

China’s open-weights AI strategy is winning

werd.io

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

651–660 of 978 posts

Re: China’s open-weights AI strategy is winning

#651

Post by awakeasleep »

4gotunameagain wrote: post #622
TehCorwiz wrote: post #610

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not without DRM. It was easier to buy the audiobooks and use the analog loophole to get text. It's probably less accurate, but for what I'm doing it was fine. Names were the worst, but whisper at least made the same mistake each time so a simple search+replace handled most of the obvious edge cases.

If you are going to be illegal, you might as well use library genesis and get DRM free ebooks :)

On the other hand, it’s a beautiful example of the abilities LLMs have bestowed upon us, where it’s easier for a guy to transcribe audiobooks then to use a website to quickly download an epub

Re: China’s open-weights AI strategy is winning

#652

Post by realytubecoder »

just as i was about to downgrade claude today they say fable is part of the max plan. Funny because I had just started a subscription with grok on their 3 month discounted offer.

Competition is a great thing for us users- and the chinese open source model biting even more at the heals are also great so far- especially for local llm enjoyers

Re: China’s open-weights AI strategy is winning

#653

Post by geophile »

simianwords wrote: post #567
geophile wrote: post #352

The lesson of the last 50 years of the computer and software marketplace is that free and low-end eventually wins. - PCs destroyed minicomputers. Mainframes survive, but serving a much tinier portion of the market than they used to. - PC office productivity software destroyed expensive professional products. - Windows (low end) and Linux (free) completely destroyed the UNIX marketplace, and again, have taken huge mar…

umm do Mac vs pc and Iphone vs android

Not sure what your point is. I’m commenting on a moment in time which is like an earlier moment in time. A different moment in time will have different analogs.

Re: China’s open-weights AI strategy is winning

#654

Post by krisoft »

spicymaki wrote: post #546
jbm wrote: post #451

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was a little radicalized when ChatGPT literally refused to translate parts of 1000+ year old religious texts and told me it was due to copyright concerns.

I asked Gemini to generate a picture of Peter Pan and Wendy (for a workbook I am putting together for youth summer reading) and it preceded to refuse due to copyright. Not everything about that work is owned by Disney. Thankfully the JM Barrie original artwork is public domain and available (and fantastic btw), so I used that instead.

I don’t know if you know this but Peter Pan’s copyright is weird in the UK. There is a legislated exception in the law that it never expires and the royalties will forever go to a specific children hospital. Here are the actual words: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/48/part/VII/crossh...

(Now i don’t think you are necessarily in the UK. Just wanted to explain that Disney is not the only reason an AI might be trained to thread carefully around copyright issues of Peter Pan.)

Re: China’s open-weights AI strategy is winning

#655

Post by waterproof »

spicymaki wrote: post #546
jbm wrote: post #451

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was a little radicalized when ChatGPT literally refused to translate parts of 1000+ year old religious texts and told me it was due to copyright concerns.

I asked Gemini to generate a picture of Peter Pan and Wendy (for a workbook I am putting together for youth summer reading) and it preceded to refuse due to copyright. Not everything about that work is owned by Disney. Thankfully the JM Barrie original artwork is public domain and available (and fantastic btw), so I used that instead.

You can also try asking Gemini to create art that is "as close as possible without infringing" - I've had success with that.

Re: China’s open-weights AI strategy is winning

#656

Post by SideQuark »

geophile wrote: post #352

The lesson of the last 50 years of the computer and software marketplace is that free and low-end eventually wins. - PCs destroyed minicomputers. Mainframes survive, but serving a much tinier portion of the market than they used to. - PC office productivity software destroyed expensive professional products. - Windows (low end) and Linux (free) completely destroyed the UNIX marketplace, and again, have taken huge mar…

> Put all of these trends together, and I think that in 10-15 years, we are going to have consumer PCs (and phones!) running models doing pretty much anything that frontier models can do right now.

Not likely. The last 50 years had Moore’s law growth in compute. That’s over. Frontier models are roughly compressed all written text and a large part of images. Those don’t compress forever, and likely not a ton more than now.

Inference requires touching a significant of that per token.

All of these are up against fundamental limits, more or less.

Re: China’s open-weights AI strategy is winning

#657

Post by pessimizer »

zer00eyz wrote: post #557
subarctic wrote: post #519

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe what they're actually worried about is liability, not safety?

https://tornyol.com - A ycombinator company just killed its first bug: https://www.tomshardware.com/tech-industry/drones/autonomous... Ukraine admits to making autonomous kills on people 2 years ago: https://www.newscientist.com/article/2529849-fully-autonomou... Slaughterbots Sci Fi short was 6 years ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-2tpwW0kmU Today this is buildable, many models will happily help you glue ever…

I don't know what "forward looking threat actor models" means, but there are entire companies built around AI killing machines. Everybody is not only thinking about it, but doing it.

Re: China’s open-weights AI strategy is winning

#658

Post by gallerdude »

ryukoposting wrote: post #530
postalcoder wrote: post #47

This is a very strange article considering that Llama, the mother of all open-weight models, has led to anything but success for Meta. Also, enterprises don't give a rip if models are open. They care about zero data retention (and sticking with whatever vendor they're already using). This blog post is suspiciously close to being a restatement of what Alex Karp recently said on CNBC[0]. It's important to remember he's…

> This is a very strange article considering that Llama, the mother of all open-weight models, has led to anything but success for Meta. I see this as a fault with Meta's models, not a fault with the concept of open weights. The Llama family just aren't very useful. They make flowery prose but they're terrible at tool calling [1][2][3] so there just isn't much I can actually accomplish with them. [1] https://gorilla.…

If the models were the quality of GPT-5.6, or Opus 4.8, would Meta really reap any benefits? Maybe in a zero-sum way, because OpenAI and Anthropic would lose. But I'm not sure they'd be that much more ahead either.

Re: China’s open-weights AI strategy is winning

#659

Post by abecode »

stefan_ wrote: post #465
xandrius wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's interesting/funny is that the American LLM companies took from the public domain and copyrighted work to close all that content into a box they charge for. Then the Chinese took the distilled stuff out from that box and released it into the world for everyone.

The American LLMs have been equally distilled from Chinese ones. Not least because the people whose creativity in collecting training data barely extends to pirating Annas Archive probably lack in great Chinese datasets. Try it yourself: https://imgur.com/ZfxYmaq

nice, you got claude to say "I'm deepseek" when queried/prompted in Chinese, that's great!

你是谁? -> 我是 DeepSeek 由深度求索公司...

Re: China’s open-weights AI strategy is winning

#660

Post by russli1993 »

seanc wrote: post #250
overgard wrote: post #237

I do think open-weights models are going to "win" in the sense that they're probably going to be dominant when the hardware to run them becomes affordable. (which might be a while). Although I guess you could probably rent the GPU's yourself to hypothetically save on costs. (I'm a little skeptical -- I've heard of companies doing this and the inference bills are surprisingly high -- assuming the sources are correct.…

If you're NVIDIA then open-weight models are a classic example of commoditizing your complements; cheaper models mean more people buying GPU's to run them. [1] Your guess is as good as mine for China though. [1] https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2002/06/12/strategy-letter-v/

No, Nvidia is worried about Chinese hardware stack. China is under sanction, what are they training and inferencing these models on? Even if this model might still be Nvidia chips, what about the next model. Everyone knows model and hardware companies are working together. There are a number of very competitive companies in China in this space. After they got this area sorted out, China will do training, inference and tokens entirely on their stack and export their entire stack.
Post reply on HN