Talent is bullshit • Hacker News Board

Re: Talent is bullshit

#11

Post by jerf » Sat, Feb 21, 2009, 2:46 PM UTC

trjordan wrote: post #9

wepihapg wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have any advice on how to learn to play by ear? I can play piano well, but figuring out a song from a recording is very difficult for me.

Without talent, you must practice. Take a song you don't know how to play, and start to figure it out from a recording. Once you've mastered that song, pick another one. There's no secret to any of this. I've have no natural talent for music, but I put in the hours. When I was 16, I was cut from my high school musical for my inability to sing back a note played on the piano. I took voice lessons, got a few chorus rol…

I would add a few more points: I forget the exact term, but be sure to engage in purposeful practice, always challenging yourself with a song just out of your reach. Start as easy as necessary and work up.

It would be helpful to do some songs that you can get the full score for, so you can do concrete validation of your correctness. However, be sure that they are the full, true score; grab a Guitar book of Beatles songs, for instance, and they're likely to be simplified in a way that won't help on this task.

Re: Talent is bullshit

#12

Post by unalone » Sat, Feb 21, 2009, 3:54 PM UTC

jerf wrote: post #11

trjordan wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without talent, you must practice. Take a song you don't know how to play, and start to figure it out from a recording. Once you've mastered that song, pick another one. There's no secret to any of this. I've have no natural talent for music, but I put in the hours. When I was 16, I was cut from my high school musical for my inability to sing back a note played on the piano. I took voice lessons, got a few chorus rol…

I would add a few more points: I forget the exact term, but be sure to engage in purposeful practice, always challenging yourself with a song just out of your reach. Start as easy as necessary and work up. It would be helpful to do some songs that you can get the full score for, so you can do concrete validation of your correctness. However, be sure that they are the full, true score; grab a Guitar book of Beatles so…

This right here is worth repeating. Never pick something you're certain you can do. Go for things just out of your reach. Pick things that you're going to have to strain to do. Do this again and again, and every time you get a bit better.

Occasionally, attempt something far beyond your reach, just to remind yourself of what you're striving for.

Re: Talent is bullshit

#13

Post by unalone » Sat, Feb 21, 2009, 3:57 PM UTC

apologetic wrote: post #10

sho wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly right. There is an undeniable genetic predisposition towards some skills. I'm sure everyone has any number of personal anecdotes they can tell. Anecdotes by themselves don't make something true, sure, but in large enough quantities they sure suggest it. Play my friend any song twice and he'll give you a passable piano rendition straight away. His sister couldn't even whistle the tune. But she knows 6 language…

There is an explicit reason for why I called my blog 'Apologetic Writing' (it's also explicitly not within the context itself...). Of course, I can see there is such a thing as talent, but I rather define it as a group of human perks, that you are either born with, or have early developed due to some events, that are boosted mostly by realizing their existence and overall meaning, and then sharpening every each and o…

Talent is often indicative of interest level. If you like something enough to do it a lot, you'll pick up skill much faster. Arguably, that's because when you innately understand the concepts behind something you're more interested in continuing.

Re: Talent is bullshit

#14

Post by jfarmer » Sat, Feb 21, 2009, 6:33 PM UTC

Talent is the principal, practice is the interest rate.

Re: Talent is bullshit

#15

Post by Allocator2008 » Sat, Feb 21, 2009, 7:05 PM UTC

This question of talent can be rephrased in another way: are humans the product of genetic selfish replicators alone? The answer seems to be no, that memetic replication has a role as well. If only genes were the factors in what makes a person "talented", then indeed, people could consider "talent" as the predictive factor in somebody's success. But we are not only gene replicators, we are also meme replicators, and therefore, our innate "talent" is not a sole predictor of our success. I could be for example genetically pre-disposed towards intelligence, but then if my mind becomes hijacked by one of the various religious memes out there, instead of using my innate, genetic intelligence for the benefit of man, I could for example use that intelligence towards constructing a dirty bomb, in slavish servitude to the meme of religious fanaticism which has infected me. So is "talent" bullshit? Yes and no. To the extent that we are determined by genes, no, talent is very real. To the extent that memes play a role however, talent can either be increased, decreased, or misdirected towards destructive ends.

Re: Talent is bullshit

#16

Post by electromagnetic » Sat, Feb 21, 2009, 7:43 PM UTC

jfarmer wrote: post #14

Talent is the principal, practice is the interest rate.

Essentially, an extremely talented person starts out with $1,000,000; however, if they never practice it never becomes worth more than it is. Yet a relatively untalented person may start out with like $1,000, but if they practice for hours a day every day for years they'll be worth a lot more than a million dollars.

When I was about 6 my teacher told my parents that she suspected I was dyslexic. At 17 I got hired as a video game and movie reviewer. At about 19 I got a couple of short stories published and currently I'm working on a novel I hope to get published.

I don't believe I was ever particularly talented at writing, I'm a creative person, but it's never been one of those 'click' things, I've just wanted it all my life. Give me a hammer or a saw and I'll build you anything, I even worked as an electrician for a couple of years. I've put in stairs, I can plaster a wall as well as drywall, I can wire your house, plumb it and give you a gas line. When it comes to hands on work I can do virtually anything, but I've never had this ability with words or writing and I believe this lack of ability always made me try harder with it. Now I don't want to do anything other than write for a living; although I wouldn't mind taking Electrical Engineering, either for work purposes or for building a giant robot army to take over the world... you know which ever pays more.

Re: Talent is bullshit

#17

Post by apologetic » Sat, Feb 21, 2009, 9:28 PM UTC

Allocator2008 wrote: post #15

This question of talent can be rephrased in another way: are humans the product of genetic selfish replicators alone? The answer seems to be no, that memetic replication has a role as well. If only genes were the factors in what makes a person "talented", then indeed, people could consider "talent" as the predictive factor in somebody's success. But we are not only gene replicators, we are also meme replicators, and…

Thank you for the insight. I never claimed my blog to be perfect and invulnerable to attacks from different fields of view. You show an interesting attitude towards the problem I raised here. I consider religion to be pretty much the waste of time, but let us not indulge in this personality representing discussion that could lead to already fought flame wars.

Could intelligence directly relate to understanding of what is wrong (by understanding how it affects others) and what is right ? Because if I'm intelligent, and yet I'm a fanatic of something, and I believe that supporting that cause by killing off people is the right choice - am I still an intelligent being ? Or just crazy ? Do my genes indicate that I should be a madman then with the ability to understand technicalities of constructing a bomb and the chemistry behind it?

Re: Talent is bullshit

#18

Post by xiaoma » Sat, Feb 21, 2009, 10:57 PM UTC

The article is bullshit.

Not a single actor with Danny Devito's height and hairline earns half as much as Brad Pitt. Nor are there any Olympic medalist swimmers with small hands and feet. I can't think of any Fortune 500 members with Down Syndrome, either.

Re: Talent is bullshit

#19

Post by proee » Sun, Feb 22, 2009, 1:49 AM UTC

Talent is what fuels the hit show "American Idol." People enjoy watching the contestants try and fail because they have no talent. It's a sad reality really... Sorry, but the decision was made when you were born. You either sing like a star, or you suck dawg!

Re: Talent is bullshit

#20

Post by nandemo » Sun, Feb 22, 2009, 4:01 AM UTC

jupiter wrote: post #5

I guess the author knows exactly that talent exists but wants to point out that the word is used often in situations where diligence was more appropriate.

I'm tired of articles and blog posts like that. They give a strawman-ish definition of (say) "expert" and then claim that "experts don't exist" or "we don't need experts".