Live data from Hacker News

Hacker wipes Romania's land registry database

news.risky.biz

281–290 of 440 posts

Re: Hacker wipes Romania's land registry database

#281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are also physical markers in the ground at the corners of most properties. So if you had to, you could send a surveyor out to recertify boundaries. That would get very expensive quickly, however.

This is not true anywhere I've lived, and I'm curious where it is true.

[deleted]

Re: Hacker wipes Romania's land registry database

#282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>had full privileged access to the database Why does full access include the ability to delete read only data that should never ever be deleted for the rest of time? It's like building a self destruct button that ignites the physical records. It's an unnecessary risk to make such a dangerous thing.

Well, you don't understand databases. Or software.

I understand that many software projects don't understand the principle of least privilege and make god users that can do anything including deleting everything.

Re: Hacker wipes Romania's land registry database

#283
post #5

> Since the hack, officials restored their website and posted a message announcing they are rebuilding the agency's entire network from scratch. Even if the hacker claims they deleted backups, the agency appears to have had an offline copy, otherwise things would have gotten really messy over the coming months in Romania. So it seems not all has been lost. I was worried about the societal implications of being unable…

I'm skeptical that they not missing at least a week's or so worth of land title registry transactions, if the only thing they have left is offline, because offline backups are not made after every single transaction. If the hacker was targeting the erasure of a particular recent transaction, they may well have succeeded. And by deleting numerous others, they have plausible deniability in the subsequent dispute over t…

> offline backups are not made after every single transaction.

All you need is an append only tape or even a printer.

Interestingly in the Bangladesh Central Bank hack they used a printer to print out any transactions, but the intruders disabled it or it was just malfunctioning because it's a printer.

But I doubt the Romanians actually had such a system.

Re: Hacker wipes Romania's land registry database

#284
post #5

> Since the hack, officials restored their website and posted a message announcing they are rebuilding the agency's entire network from scratch. Even if the hacker claims they deleted backups, the agency appears to have had an offline copy, otherwise things would have gotten really messy over the coming months in Romania. So it seems not all has been lost. I was worried about the societal implications of being unable…

In the US, real estate purchases come with "title insurance", because there is no official, guaranteed, land registry database.

Re: Hacker wipes Romania's land registry database

#285
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One more reason to to define the whole infrastructure in code and have offline backups. Recovering could be measured in hours.

> Recovering could be measured in hours. Yes, even hundreds of them sometimes. The most time consuming part of recovering from an attack is validating everything . It takes more than a few hours to validate the infra that stays put isn’t compromised, the IaC code itself isn’t compromised, deploy the infra, bring a copy of the offline backup of your data (your IaC can’t drive to another site and bring the backups, the…

> The most time consuming part of recovering from an attack is validating everything. It takes more than a few hours to validate the infra that stays put isn’t compromised, the IaC code itself isn’t compromised, deploy the infra, bring a copy of the offline backup of your data (your IaC can’t drive to another site and bring the backups, then make a copy, unless tou are really sure you removed any trace of compromise), validate that the backup is sound, then restore it.

> In some cases the infrastructure part is the least time consuming. Some platforms are straight forward enough that even manual deployment is fast. But after a hack you can’t trust anything so you need to do the slow validation that takes longer than your projected “hours”.

Your IaC is supposed to be on those offline backups too, and should be able to do everything from clean hardware.

The most time consuming part is to identify what caused the compromise. After that, you can put everything back online and then at the same time start to analyse who did it/what they did and so on. If the root cause for the breach is identified, you also know the time most likely and can trust the offline IaC backup.

Re: Hacker wipes Romania's land registry database

#286
post #5

> Since the hack, officials restored their website and posted a message announcing they are rebuilding the agency's entire network from scratch. Even if the hacker claims they deleted backups, the agency appears to have had an offline copy, otherwise things would have gotten really messy over the coming months in Romania. So it seems not all has been lost. I was worried about the societal implications of being unable…

This happened in a 50k people town where my father is from in 1982 with a BIG flood that destroyed the town land registry documents (among a lot of the town). Since he's a lawyer, had first hand experience and I was always curious I asked many things about this a while back. Basically, what happened is that they rebuilt it from proof of ownership and testimonies of the people. You can never get to 100% recovery like…

Wouldn't work in a city like NYC where nobody knows their neighbours and a chunk of houses are empty and only owned by shady shell companies as investments...

Re: Hacker wipes Romania's land registry database

#288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are also physical markers in the ground at the corners of most properties. So if you had to, you could send a surveyor out to recertify boundaries. That would get very expensive quickly, however.

This is not true anywhere I've lived, and I'm curious where it is true.

It's usually a piece of steel rebar/round stock or pipe, maybe with a yellow plastic cap, or maybe not. Usually buried or not very visible, I'd guess the surveyors find them with a metal detector.

Re: Hacker wipes Romania's land registry database

#289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are also physical markers in the ground at the corners of most properties. So if you had to, you could send a surveyor out to recertify boundaries. That would get very expensive quickly, however.

This is not true anywhere I've lived, and I'm curious where it is true.

Most of the us has it like that. Some of the early states still do 'nw to the stump', a stump that rotted away before 1800... The newer states learned that lesson and land is to something more likely to last and hard to move. Metal stakes are most common. Though most people are not aware of the stake since there is no reason to look for it.

Re: Hacker wipes Romania's land registry database

#290
post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everything comes with a risk, and people usually take it with a decent understanding of how to mitigate it mostly. If we start thinking along the lines of technology has risk and we shouldn't use it, we should go back all the way to the discovery of fire as we all know fire can cause a lot of damage if in the wrong hands.

Technology can make lives safer. However, software is never secure, cannot be made secure, this is empirically proven to be a 100% valid position. In as software is not secure, and can not be made secure, using it for important records storage makes zero sense, unless you a) have full backups offline in physical, non-digital, read only medium or b) just don't do it online, at all. And my point is, it's not worth the…

But physical records also cannot be made secure. And the convenience is gigantic. I think that it is worth it, as clearly does much of the world.
Post reply on HN