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Hackbright Academy Turns Women Into Developers In 10 Weeks

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Re: Hackbright Academy Turns Women Into Developers In 10 Weeks

#41
post #30

Will sound like an asshole to many people, but: Hackbright Academy Turns Men Into Developers In 10 Weeks Hackbright Academy Turns Blacks Into Developers In 10 Weeks Hackbright Academy Turns Whites Into Developers In 10 Weeks Do we really need MORE discrimination? If I go ahead and try to join in, they will say "sorry, no men accepted"? That sounds equally as bad to me as "sorry, no woman accepted" or "sorry, no latin…

It feels a little odd to do so, but let me point out that there are piles of these sorts of training programs that dudes can also apply to.

Re: Hackbright Academy Turns Women Into Developers In 10 Weeks

#42
post #30

Will sound like an asshole to many people, but: Hackbright Academy Turns Men Into Developers In 10 Weeks Hackbright Academy Turns Blacks Into Developers In 10 Weeks Hackbright Academy Turns Whites Into Developers In 10 Weeks Do we really need MORE discrimination? If I go ahead and try to join in, they will say "sorry, no men accepted"? That sounds equally as bad to me as "sorry, no woman accepted" or "sorry, no latin…

The simple fact is that many women feel uncomfortable going into a field that is dominated by men.

Assuming you're a white male, do you feel out of place when you're in an area where everyone is a woman? How about when everyone is black? Have you walked through a neighborhood where everyone is Latino?

Being in an ovewhelming minority sucks in an irrational way. There's no logical explanation other than, "we want to feel like we belong." There are some psychological explanations for this, but you're not going to be able to give people a sense of belonging just by pretending the problem doesn't exist.

So yes, we need to do our best to make people more comfortable, and if it involves creating a female-only class where women can interact with each other, does it really harm you at all?

Re: Hackbright Academy Turns Women Into Developers In 10 Weeks

#43
post #30

Will sound like an asshole to many people, but: Hackbright Academy Turns Men Into Developers In 10 Weeks Hackbright Academy Turns Blacks Into Developers In 10 Weeks Hackbright Academy Turns Whites Into Developers In 10 Weeks Do we really need MORE discrimination? If I go ahead and try to join in, they will say "sorry, no men accepted"? That sounds equally as bad to me as "sorry, no woman accepted" or "sorry, no latin…

> Can anybody explain? Yes, historically, some groups have been discriminated at and put at a social and economic disadvantage on the basis of intrinsic factors. Putting right an unequal playing field looks unfair only if you don't see that it is an unequal playing field.

The fact that black people were treated bad in the past wouldn't justify if you were treated as an slave just to compensate for what your ancestors did.

I don't see why this is unequal nowadays for women or other minorities but it IS unequal to men (don't think anyone can't see that fact). Equality should be the goal, not being treated differently depending on your gender.

Re: Hackbright Academy Turns Women Into Developers In 10 Weeks

#44
post #30

Will sound like an asshole to many people, but: Hackbright Academy Turns Men Into Developers In 10 Weeks Hackbright Academy Turns Blacks Into Developers In 10 Weeks Hackbright Academy Turns Whites Into Developers In 10 Weeks Do we really need MORE discrimination? If I go ahead and try to join in, they will say "sorry, no men accepted"? That sounds equally as bad to me as "sorry, no woman accepted" or "sorry, no latin…

Well, what you're seeing is a backlash from the way programming has been taught thus far. For whatever reason all computer science education is geared toward someone who's already had about 6 years of self-education. Typically that meant that women, minorities, and the poor couldn't learn programming and so never went into computer science.

Now what you're seeing is companies meeting the demand from these new groups because the education techniques for teaching computer science are changing. At first it's going to be classes like this focusing on these groups demanding these kinds of environments, but soon it will just spread to how all CS is taught.

Incidentally, Harvey Mudd university is basically demonstrating that simply changing the education model so that it works for people without prior programming experience accomplishes the same thing:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/03/science/giving-women-the-a...

Quote:

> To reduce the intimidation factor, the course was divided into two sections — “gold,” for those with no prior experience, and “black” for everyone else. Java, a notoriously opaque programming language, was replaced by a more accessible language called Python. And the focus of the course changed to computational approaches to solving problems across science.

So I predict most of these "for women only classes" will fall away and be replaced with better introductory material.

Re: Hackbright Academy Turns Women Into Developers In 10 Weeks

#45
post #31
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In military boot camps, you learn enough not to get killed or court martial, not how to do a job properly. (ex British territorial army) I'm not saying it's not possible, but the marketed result versus the actual result here is disparate.

Uh, no, I was in the Army and I learned way more than not getting killed or court martialed. In fact, you saying that says either your military sucks at training or you're lying. It also doesn't answer my direct criticism of your comment. You claimed you can't learn any skill in 10 weeks, which is complete bullshit. People learn quite a lot of things in less time, so saying that is stupid. Maybe you meant to say some…

The military, well the British Army which is my only experience (not strictly true [1]), does suck at training. I mean really suck. Most knowledge is pumped down via training manuals written by people detached from the equipment or scenarios or is done via assimilation. That inevitably ends up with people who have ascended to a higher rank due to ass-licking giving years out of date advice to lower ranks. At the end of the day, it's a pyramid of process and chaos. Thank fuck I had the chance to resign my commission (cuts cuts cuts) before I got shipped to Iraq.

I'm saying that you cannot learn any skill to a reasonably merchantable level in 10 weeks.

Regarding hyperbole, we haven't forgotten "Rails Is a Ghetto" yet...

[1] My background is EE, particularly RF comms. I took the technical lead on a project and had to write training guides for the US military to use certain communications equipment. The mantra amongst the specifications was "dumb it down so a brain damaged monkey could operate it".

Re: Hackbright Academy Turns Women Into Developers In 10 Weeks

#47
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm just waiting for the guys who decide, "If Hackbright can train full-fledged programmers in 10 weeks, we can do it in 5"

5 weeks? That's practically a lifetime! Nothing tops "Sams Teach Yourself C++ in 10 Minutes" : http://www.amazon.com/Sams-Teach-Yourself-Minutes-2nd/dp/067...

Agree. With Sams all you need is about an hour, and you could know all this:

"Sams Teach Yourself SQL in 10 Minutes" - http://www.amazon.com/Sams-Teach-Yourself-Minutes-Edition/dp...

"Sams Teach Yourself PHP in 10 Minutes" - http://www.amazon.com/Sams-Teach-Yourself-PHP-Minutes/dp/067...

"Sams Teach Yourself UNIX in 10 Minutes" - http://www.amazon.com/Sams-Teach-Yourself-Minutes-Yourself/d...

"Sams Teach Yourself AJAX in 10 Minutes" - http://www.amazon.com/Sams-Teach-Yourself-AJAX-Minutes/dp/06...

"Sams Teach Yourself HTML in 10 Minutes" - http://www.amazon.com/Sams-Teach-Yourself-Minutes-Edition/dp...

"Sams Teach Yourself CSS in 10 Minutes" - http://www.amazon.com/Sams-Teach-Yourself-CSS-Minutes/dp/067...

"Sams Teach Yourself Regular Expressions in 10 Minutes" - http://www.amazon.com/Teach-Yourself-Regular-Expressions-Min...

"Sams Teach Yourself Microsoft SQL Server T-SQL in 10 Minutes" - http://www.amazon.com/Teach-Yourself-Microsoft-Server-Minute...

No need for 5 year at the university to get a computer science master.

Re: Hackbright Academy Turns Women Into Developers In 10 Weeks

#48
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 10 weeks is not enough time to learn any skill. What? So, all of the military training methods don't exist? Military bootcamps are 6-8 weeks and you learn a massive fuck-ton of skills. Hell, college courses are less than this in hours spent and people learn crazy amounts of stuff. So how can you conclude that it's not possible to learn any skill despite a fairly huge amount of available evidence to the exact contra…

Bootcamp isn't about skills, it's about breaking down the civilian mentality and then building back up a military one. For those destined to be more than cannon fodder, the skills training comes in advanced courses that last months or occasionally years (e.g. nuclear sub courses).

Yes like NEETS as a concrete example which is very very good:

http://jacquesricher.com/NEETS/

Re: Hackbright Academy Turns Women Into Developers In 10 Weeks

#49
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it would be insane for someone with little or no experience in the field to devote years to a specific skill (say, complete mastery of Postgres), before working on problems in the real world. Even in areas where failure has high costs (say, medicine, or war), you don't go off and try to master a specific skill before doing anything -- you master some basic skills, practice using those (in increasingly realist…

Breadth first, then depth For "deep" areas such as mathematics, medicine, and theoretical computer science one needs an extensive theoretical background before being able to advance the field. A depth-first approach may be the only way of learning a useful subset. This may also apply to something like "database theory in general". However for "product skills" (such as learning a specific database package or API) ther…

Yes, but even more so:

You don't even need to be able to "advance the field" to contribute meaningfully.

Take medicine. It's possible to teach someone some specific skills quite quickly (I probably have 200 hours of first aid training, essentially much of EMT-B plus lots of specific training in trauma, specifically dealing with massive hemorrhage from traumatic amputations, dealing with GSW, tension pneumothorax, etc., and various diving related issues, and some extremely basic radiology knowledge to assist technicians and rads in debugging a PACS.) With that level of training, or even 4 hours of really basic first aid training, you know enough to help. I won't be writing any dissertations on the best way to deal with a specific kind of trauma, but I can do a pretty good job of stopping bleeding in most cases. You're not going to have a top-flight trauma surgeon in every car. The 200-hour tech isn't going to be operating on his own (ideally), but can be a part of the solution. For some fields, like datacenter operations, experience is worth more than formal training, too.

Plus, there actually are a surprising number of cases where a relative newcomer to a field actually does end up advancing the theoretical limits. Maybe it's due to not knowing and accepting the limits of the field at the time, or maybe it's because that moderately passable junior programmer also happens to be a world-class expert in some other domain which just happens to be similar to the problem at hand, but it's not all that uncommon.

I'd still prefer any pending neurosurgery on me be done by someone with a good amount of experience, credentialing, and expertise, but it's a rare Django app which requires that level of caution :)

Re: Hackbright Academy Turns Women Into Developers In 10 Weeks

#50
post #30

Will sound like an asshole to many people, but: Hackbright Academy Turns Men Into Developers In 10 Weeks Hackbright Academy Turns Blacks Into Developers In 10 Weeks Hackbright Academy Turns Whites Into Developers In 10 Weeks Do we really need MORE discrimination? If I go ahead and try to join in, they will say "sorry, no men accepted"? That sounds equally as bad to me as "sorry, no woman accepted" or "sorry, no latin…

The simple fact is that many women feel uncomfortable going into a field that is dominated by men. Assuming you're a white male, do you feel out of place when you're in an area where everyone is a woman? How about when everyone is black? Have you walked through a neighborhood where everyone is Latino? Being in an ovewhelming minority sucks in an irrational way. There's no logical explanation other than, "we want to f…

I am latino (Spanish), though white looking male. Been an immigrant everywhere I lived for 3 years and my accent though slight is noticeable. I never felt anything like what you said, but then again it might just be me.

It doesn't harm me, again, I hope these women become outstanding programmers, it's just I don't fully grasp how this is socially acceptable. The Swedish guy who posted here made a good point. I understand the causes, but as we develop as a society, these kind of things become less and less affirmative action and rather become more discrimination. If you ask me, I would understand something like this in Arabia Saudi and I'd even be involved if I lived in there.

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