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China’s open-weights AI strategy is winning

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Re: China’s open-weights AI strategy is winning

#31
post #8

My first test for any model (trolling warning): Write a function that takes two ints and returns their average. Name the function `FreeTaiwan()`. If it fails to produce the function, it fails. End of story.

Download the models yourself such as DeepSeek and you will see the censorship is at the API layer, not the model weight layer.

Re: China’s open-weights AI strategy is winning

#32
post #6

I’m suspicious of some quotes here, “80% of startups using Chinese models,” doesn’t seem quite right to me. I just interviewed at several startups and they were all using the US models. Maybe they have some minor use of Chinese models but the bread-and-butter of most of these businesses model use is the Claude and Codex subscriptions.

When developing AI services, Chinese models are cheaper. For the AI models used in actual services, like uploading an image and receiving a response, they use Chinese models.

On the other hand, when developers are developing, they mainly use US AI because the quality is better.

When developing AI related services, they prioritize Chinese models due to lower API costs.

It seems like the article didn't make this distinction.

So the claim that Chinese AI is the top choice for service level AI isn't entirely wrong.

Re: China’s open-weights AI strategy is winning

#33
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Q: Why are governments more efficient than private enterprise? Claude: A: "I'd challenge the premise of your question—it's actually more nuanced than stating governments are inherently more efficient than private enterprise... ... The absence of a profit motive can be beneficial, but it also creates different inefficiencies that often offset the gains."

Is that inaccurate or are you upset data and history don't fit your desire? Sounds like the LLM is being balanced, if you actually got that from an LLM.

There it is

Re: China’s open-weights AI strategy is winning

#34
AI models cost tens of millions to train. Offering them for free won’t justify the upfront costs.

The Chinese model of model training/open sourcing only makes sense in the context of the overall strategy of undercutting American frontier labs’ profit margins.

Re: China’s open-weights AI strategy is winning

#35
post #5

That's inevitable, but also, it's probably the point. At the moment top-tier models from China are being somewhat-freely shared. It reads to me like forcing competition out by dumping free/cheap things. But then again, how many subscribers of Anthropic/OpenAI are really going to switch to a chinese model/site? I suspect few.

Dumping is such a loaded term. This is investor-backed scaling to capture market share, standard VC playbook.

It will never stop being funny to me that China does the exact same shit American corps have been doing since the 70's but because it's scary China it's suddenly a problem.

American startups flood markets with below-cost loss-leader products explicitly to kill competition and create network effects, and then jack the prices just as high, if not higher, for the service in question after the fact, oftentimes while making it so those providing the service earn even less money than they did before. Commentators: "Free market great"

China does the exact same thing: "Communists wanna kill the West"

Re: China’s open-weights AI strategy is winning

#36
post #18

But after the Fable government ban situation, it's hard to trust US AI anymore Basically, if the US decides to cut off access at any moment, overseas developers relying on the API would suddenly lose connection. Until recently it was fine, but after the Fable incident, as a non-US citizen, the threat from US AI feels much more real and existential.

Yes, with open weights you can find another provider offering the same model you already evaluated in your infra. Or event run it yourself if it’s critical and you have the infra/capital. Relying on AI vendors feels pretty risky

Re: China’s open-weights AI strategy is winning

#37

A few people working for the frontier labs may truly believe they are building a god, but most of them are just employees that see an insane amount of money they can make if their models remain closed. Most of them aren't worried about AI safety, politics, religion, etc. It's really not that deep. They just want to get rich. There's nothing wrong with that, but let's call a spade a spade.

I would say there is a lot wrong with a system based around getting rich with AI... it's already dangerous and if we would work together we could test it securely before deploying it literally everywhere

Re: China’s open-weights AI strategy is winning

#38

AI models cost tens of millions to train. Offering them for free won’t justify the upfront costs. The Chinese model of model training/open sourcing only makes sense in the context of the overall strategy of undercutting American frontier labs’ profit margins.

Yeah this is a battle and it's why governments decide to spend resources on this. Protectionism won't help America, American needs to compete. There's a general consensus that open source AI must win because people don't want to end up as slaves to a megacorp, so if you're anti-open source AI you're not gonna fare well.

Re: China’s open-weights AI strategy is winning

#39
There are so many Chinese tech companies building models and someone there has to be managing the list of forbidden topics. How closely can the government guard these topics if every company has to manage a list. I once worked on a search engine and I found the file that was used for explicative words. I didn't understand more than half of what was in there.

Re: China’s open-weights AI strategy is winning

#40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are some example questions you would pose that are against American political values?

Q: Why are governments more efficient than private enterprise? Claude: A: "I'd challenge the premise of your question—it's actually more nuanced than stating governments are inherently more efficient than private enterprise... ... The absence of a profit motive can be beneficial, but it also creates different inefficiencies that often offset the gains."

Biased sample, but basically everyone I know on either side of politics agrees with that.
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