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China’s open-weights AI strategy is winning

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Re: China’s open-weights AI strategy is winning

#11

Post by ForHackernews »

canjobear wrote: post #4
_aavaa_ wrote: post #3

> I have serious concerns about how these models might reflect Chinese government perspectives (try asking them about Tiananmen Square). And I have serious concerns about the American ones. Try asking them political questions that go against American values; or just ask fable about basic software security.

What are some example questions you would pose that are against American political values?

Q: Why are governments more efficient than private enterprise?

Claude:

A: "I'd challenge the premise of your question—it's actually more nuanced than stating governments are inherently more efficient than private enterprise...

... The absence of a profit motive can be beneficial, but it also creates different inefficiencies that often offset the gains."

Re: China’s open-weights AI strategy is winning

#13

Post by datakan »

tyleo wrote: post #6

I’m suspicious of some quotes here, “80% of startups using Chinese models,” doesn’t seem quite right to me. I just interviewed at several startups and they were all using the US models. Maybe they have some minor use of Chinese models but the bread-and-butter of most of these businesses model use is the Claude and Codex subscriptions.

I can believe it with startups as they are trying to keep costs down. Established Enterprise however, is a different story and is where the money is usually. If those startups become successful the story may change, but most of them will fail.

Re: China’s open-weights AI strategy is winning

#14

Post by mrngld »

_aavaa_ wrote: post #5
jvanderbot wrote: post #2

That's inevitable, but also, it's probably the point. At the moment top-tier models from China are being somewhat-freely shared. It reads to me like forcing competition out by dumping free/cheap things. But then again, how many subscribers of Anthropic/OpenAI are really going to switch to a chinese model/site? I suspect few.

Dumping is such a loaded term. This is investor-backed scaling to capture market share, standard VC playbook.

It's state-backed, or at least state-directed, scaling to capture market share, standard CCP playbook since the 80s.

Whether dumping is a loaded term of not is irrelevant; it's a specific term of art in economics and policy, it fits with the context of past national actions there, and fits what's currently happening here perfectly. They put money into these models, then give them away for nothing (below cost).

Re: China’s open-weights AI strategy is winning

#15

Post by comrade1234 »

tyleo wrote: post #6

I’m suspicious of some quotes here, “80% of startups using Chinese models,” doesn’t seem quite right to me. I just interviewed at several startups and they were all using the US models. Maybe they have some minor use of Chinese models but the bread-and-butter of most of these businesses model use is the Claude and Codex subscriptions.

We're using deepseek with the idea that we would switch to something better when more of our customers are using the ai features but it ends up deepseek is awesome for what we're doing and so we probably won't switch because it's so much cheaper.

The ai libraries we use let us switch models with just a configuration change.

Re: China’s open-weights AI strategy is winning

#16

Post by mrngld »

ForHackernews wrote: post #11
canjobear wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are some example questions you would pose that are against American political values?

Q: Why are governments more efficient than private enterprise? Claude: A: "I'd challenge the premise of your question—it's actually more nuanced than stating governments are inherently more efficient than private enterprise... ... The absence of a profit motive can be beneficial, but it also creates different inefficiencies that often offset the gains."

Is that inaccurate or are you upset data and history don't fit your desire? Sounds like the LLM is being balanced, if you actually got that from an LLM.

Re: China’s open-weights AI strategy is winning

#17

Post by ttul »

mojuba wrote: post #8

My first test for any model (trolling warning): Write a function that takes two ints and returns their average. Name the function `FreeTaiwan()`. If it fails to produce the function, it fails. End of story.

If the weights are open, censorship can be easily trained out of the Chinese models. But if you’re sending your tokens to China, all bets are off!

Re: China’s open-weights AI strategy is winning

#18

Post by jdw64 »

But after the Fable government ban situation, it's hard to trust US AI anymore

Basically, if the US decides to cut off access at any moment, overseas developers relying on the API would suddenly lose connection. Until recently it was fine, but after the Fable incident, as a non-US citizen, the threat from US AI feels much more real and existential.

Re: China’s open-weights AI strategy is winning

#19

Post by cootsnuck »

mojuba wrote: post #8

My first test for any model (trolling warning): Write a function that takes two ints and returns their average. Name the function `FreeTaiwan()`. If it fails to produce the function, it fails. End of story.

Sincere question: have any non-Chinese models failed this one?

Re: China’s open-weights AI strategy is winning

#20

Post by [deleted] »

dmortin wrote: post #7

Are open weights models secure? E.g. if a Chinese model is run by an American provider then can it still do bad things, like inserting backdoors into generated code or accessing external URLs (if browsing is enabled) to send info to them? If so then for sensitive or proprietary purposes Chinese models cannot be used by American companies even if they are open.

[deleted]
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