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LEDs’ potential to save our night skies

spectrum.ieee.org

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Re: LEDs’ potential to save our night skies

#21

Post by trollbridge »

BLKNSLVR wrote: post #15
SuperNinKenDo wrote: post #9

I hate outdoor LED lights so much, I won't be surprised if a couple decades or centuries from now we discover that these things have been doing permanent damage to people's eyes. It's getting harder and more unpleasant to walk at night, I can't see and my eyes legitimately hurt every couple of minutes.

Does this trigger you: Modern car LED headlights There doesn't appear to be any standard being followed (anymore?) on brightness or angle or height (or shape). A selection of them are easy to confuse with high beams. Makes driving at night in the rain some kind of epilepsy inducing overwhelm of lights and reflections and lens flare coming from everywhere, reminiscent of the cyberpunk aesthetic.

In the U.S., the DOT sets standards, but they only apply to new vehicles sold. Aftermarket lights can be just about anything. (Some are labelled "not for highway use", as if that prevents them from being used on public roadways.)

Certain types of people seem to think they should install really, really bright LED lights in their car and then aim them right at other driver's eyes. I believe this comes from a mindset where one is unable to put one's self in another person's aspect, or where one simply doesn't care about others.

Re: LEDs’ potential to save our night skies

#22

Post by trollbridge »

lysace wrote: post #8

The writing style frustrated me immensely. tl;dr: Cheap cool-white LEDs cut energy but worsened light pollution; warmer, dynamically dimmable LED fixtures/infra fix it but lower costs tend to win.

Isn't it standard journalism? Instead of just giving us the conclusion we're supposed to think, they interview various people in the field and quote what those people think, and then let us draw our own conclusions.

Re: LEDs’ potential to save our night skies

#23

Post by Rotundo »

theodorethomas wrote: post #11

I wondered if a city-wide synchronised Pulse-Width-Modulation of LED lights could allow astrophotography (or even naked-eye astronomy) to be possible again, with a filter synchronised to the off-cycle.

Using PWM to dim lights should be banned wholesale. Many people, me included, get crazy headaches from the worst lights and mild discomfort from the best ones. It's also completely unnecessary as non-flickering bulbs do exist and are readily available for the same price.

Re: LEDs’ potential to save our night skies

#24

Post by lysace »

trollbridge wrote: post #22
lysace wrote: post #8

The writing style frustrated me immensely. tl;dr: Cheap cool-white LEDs cut energy but worsened light pollution; warmer, dynamically dimmable LED fixtures/infra fix it but lower costs tend to win.

Isn't it standard journalism? Instead of just giving us the conclusion we're supposed to think, they interview various people in the field and quote what those people think, and then let us draw our own conclusions.

No, this is engagement-maxxing style journalism. Complete with the clickbait headline. It also spends almost no time on why the cheaper-but-dumber options win.

(Everything is relative. I expect more from IEEE than the NYP or the Daily Mail, as extreme examples.)

Re: LEDs’ potential to save our night skies

#25

Post by uv-depression »

Greenhouses here in the lower mainland of British Columbia have been devastating to the night sky. It's quite depressing how little society values the night sky, something that's been an important part of every human culture for longer than recorded history. I've taken friends out to thoroughly mediocre skies (Bortle 4-5) and they've been very impressed, because they're used to city lights (Bortle 9) where you can maybe see a few of the brightest stars and planets.

If you've never seen truly dark skies, do yourself a favour and go see what they look like during true night. Bring binoculars if you have them, maybe get a planisphere and a (dim!) red flashlight.

The lack of respect for the night sky includes starlink and the other internet providers dumping tens of thousands of satellites in orbit instead of building municipal internet, by the way. It's been a huge hit to the field of astronomy. Before someone inevitably says "we should just be putting telescopes in orbit", orbital observatories are obviously a huge deal and I support building more of them, but you simply can't put things like the ELT (40m primary mirror, 2800 tonnes) or the Square Kilometre Array in space.

Re: LEDs’ potential to save our night skies

#26

Post by hectdev »

I've started doing this in my home. All lights are smart LEDs. At 8pm, they shift warm, 80%. From 9pm-10pm, they go from 80% to 0%. At 7am, they start going from 0% to 100% cool (I work from home and it helps with focus).

Having my environment reflect the patterns of nature has really been a nice change.

Re: LEDs’ potential to save our night skies

#27

Post by dec0dedab0de »

trollbridge wrote: post #21
BLKNSLVR wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does this trigger you: Modern car LED headlights There doesn't appear to be any standard being followed (anymore?) on brightness or angle or height (or shape). A selection of them are easy to confuse with high beams. Makes driving at night in the rain some kind of epilepsy inducing overwhelm of lights and reflections and lens flare coming from everywhere, reminiscent of the cyberpunk aesthetic.

In the U.S., the DOT sets standards, but they only apply to new vehicles sold. Aftermarket lights can be just about anything. (Some are labelled "not for highway use", as if that prevents them from being used on public roadways.) Certain types of people seem to think they should install really, really bright LED lights in their car and then aim them right at other driver's eyes. I believe this comes from a mindset wh…

I hated these so much until I got a car with a tinted rear windshield, and a self-dimming mirror.

Re: LEDs’ potential to save our night skies

#28

Post by wongarsu »

trollbridge wrote: post #19
Loic wrote: post #5

Where I live, we have a small park, 500m away. You need to walk through it if you want to get to the city center from the small neighborhood we live in. To protect the wildlife, the lighting system has presence sensors, so as you walk or bicycle through the park, the way/street lighting turns on, you can walk, and just after you, it turns dark again. Really cool, especially the first time I went through it in the mid…

Wouldn't it be more reasonable to just expect people who want to walk places in the dead of night to wear a headlamp? They're cheap, easy to recharge, and can be adjusted for various brightness levels.

People associate a lack of lighting with crime

I vaguely remember that studies showed that lack of streetlights does not create crime, but the crime that happens anyways prefers badly lit areas. But from a pedestrian's perspective that's not much relief, you'd still avoid those areas. Which is not what a city planner has in mind for a park

Re: LEDs’ potential to save our night skies

#29

Post by bpodgursky »

uv-depression wrote: post #25

Greenhouses here in the lower mainland of British Columbia have been devastating to the night sky. It's quite depressing how little society values the night sky, something that's been an important part of every human culture for longer than recorded history. I've taken friends out to thoroughly mediocre skies (Bortle 4-5) and they've been very impressed, because they're used to city lights (Bortle 9) where you can ma…

Dude your country is 98% desolate and unsuited to agriculture. If you want night sky go to a cabin literally anywhere in your unending and cold mountains instead of shutting down agriculture in the only marginal spot on the west coast you can grow food.

Re: LEDs’ potential to save our night skies

#30

Post by fhdkweig »

trollbridge wrote: post #19
Loic wrote: post #5

Where I live, we have a small park, 500m away. You need to walk through it if you want to get to the city center from the small neighborhood we live in. To protect the wildlife, the lighting system has presence sensors, so as you walk or bicycle through the park, the way/street lighting turns on, you can walk, and just after you, it turns dark again. Really cool, especially the first time I went through it in the mid…

Wouldn't it be more reasonable to just expect people who want to walk places in the dead of night to wear a headlamp? They're cheap, easy to recharge, and can be adjusted for various brightness levels.

I would consider that ideal, but there would always be the fear of a potential negligence lawsuit if someone got hurt or crimed, so the government considers them necessary.
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