Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The EU is about to sell our most sensitive data to the US for visa-free travel

edri.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

141–150 of 376 posts

Re: The EU is about to sell our most sensitive data to the US for visa-free travel

#141

Post by arlort »

afarah1 wrote: post #103
speak_plainly wrote: post #54

This is a good thing for travellers. In border security there are generally two camps, one that uses data and intelligence to go after the worst, large-scale criminal operations and networks, and generally makes travelling easy for the average person, and the other is like traditional cops using traditional tactics… the kind that will miss the person smuggling a kilogram of cocaine in their suitcase but will go after…

The same can be said about Flock, or other surveillance state mechanisms. It's good for security, it's more convenient than police doing police work. Until it's not. Until it's hacked or abused as powerful mechanisms commonly are.

There's some level of difference to be fair

Hacking is a concern in both but the bigger issue is potential for abuse of power.

In the case of border checks the target is by necessity someone that isn't a citizen. This means that:

1. We generally afford them less safeguards than citizens so it creates less precedent (both legal and in terms of overton window)

2. The potential for abuse is ultimately less because a traveler on a short term visa is unlikely to still be in the country / unable to leave if a hostile government comes to power and intends to abuse the data

Also fingerprints and a picture are significantly less invasive than pervasive video surveillance in public spaces

Re: The EU is about to sell our most sensitive data to the US for visa-free travel

#142

Post by rafram »

rawgabbit wrote: post #99
rafram wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> because they were too stupid to figure out US citizens don't have to do that This seems extremely unlikely to me. Did you stand in the noncitizens line by mistake?

It's called racial profiling.

US citizens aren't fingerprinted on entry, regardless of race(!). They don't even have the fingerprint machines in the citizen line at any airport I've ever gone through, which is why I suspect GP went to the wrong place.

Re: The EU is about to sell our most sensitive data to the US for visa-free travel

#143

Post by throw-the-towel »

themaninthedark wrote: post #124
iso1631 wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ESTAs used to be instant for me, but last time I got one (2023) it took 2 days The US is particularly bad as you need an ESTA to transit. I had a friend nearly caught out by that on a flight from London to Lima which involved changing in Miami. When changing plane from an international to international flight in most countries you get off a plane, maybe go through security, and then get on another plane. In the US th…

The same rules in Canada and Mexico.

And the UK I think.

Re: The EU is about to sell our most sensitive data to the US for visa-free travel

#144

Post by neonstatic »

maratc wrote: post #12

The point missing in the article is that, in order to enter the US, one needs to give the US Govt their photo and fingerprints ("biometric data") anyway. There are two options: visa-free with the biometric data passing on the wire (no hassle), or visa (a major hassle) and biometric data passing in the airport (a minor one). As a side note, the EU also collects photo and fingerprints from visitors now. Whereas in the…

> one needs to give the US Govt their photo and fingerprints ("biometric data") anyway.

Standard practice everywhere in Asia.

Re: The EU is about to sell our most sensitive data to the US for visa-free travel

#145

Post by happymellon »

maratc wrote: post #85
calgoo wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have gotten fingerprinted every time i arrive, before i got a green card and after i got a green card. Not sure if its related to something else, country of origin or country im traveling from etc.

Ok, it could depend on the type of visa too. I only enter for tourism (B2 I think) and have never overstayed.

Never overstaying, always fingerprinted on arrival.

Re: The EU is about to sell our most sensitive data to the US for visa-free travel

#146

Post by moomin »

dataflow wrote: post #138
beej71 wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This all reminds me about how RealID was vital to secure us from terrorism, and it took 20 years to get it in place... with no significant terrorist actions in that timeframe. IMHO this level of tracking ain't worth the safety gained. Seems like safety gain is just the excuse at this point.

Edit: sorry, I misunderstood the post.

I think a better way of describing it would be, someone broke into your house. The police said they'd patrol it, but it would take 20 years to set up. In those 20 years, no-one broke into your house. You might suspect they had other reasons for wanting to patrol outside your house.

Re: The EU is about to sell our most sensitive data to the US for visa-free travel

#147

Post by continuational »

dataflow wrote: post #138
beej71 wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This all reminds me about how RealID was vital to secure us from terrorism, and it took 20 years to get it in place... with no significant terrorist actions in that timeframe. IMHO this level of tracking ain't worth the safety gained. Seems like safety gain is just the excuse at this point.

Edit: sorry, I misunderstood the post.

The parent post is saying that the officer didn't show up for 20 years, with no burglaries in your neighborhood in between.

Re: The EU is about to sell our most sensitive data to the US for visa-free travel

#148

Post by some_random »

chrystalkey wrote: post #130
some_random wrote: post #26

What a stupid, hysterical claim. This "sensitive data" is just what's on your passport, fingerprints, criminal history, and terrorism flags (from European agencies), only for people crossing the border. I don't see how you could defend not sharing any of that.

...uhm You are happy to share your home address and everything else to securely identify you to a government acting increasingly erratic? Because I am not. I would be happy if terrorism-flagged people are shared across borders, but not everyone. Remember once the dataset is there, it is not ever going to go away, regardless of who is in power

If you don't want the US to have your date of birth, photo, fingerprints, etc then don't go to the US. It's that easy.

Re: The EU is about to sell our most sensitive data to the US for visa-free travel

#149

Post by sib »

everfrustrated wrote: post #129
cm2187 wrote: post #18

I fail to understand the distinction between an ESTA and a visa to be honest. You need to do the paperwork in advance, pay, provide all sort of personal information, and it can be denied, and if approved only for a limited amount of time. Given that both the EU and the UK have reciprocated, it is a fiction that there exists some visa free travel between these 3 zones. And the more hassle you create, the less tourism…

It's to get around bilateral arrangements where counties have mutually agreed to not require visas (IE visa-on-arrival). This allows doing visa type checks but not technically violating the agreement as it's not called a visa.

I spent around 20 minutes arguing with ChatGPT when I asked the question and we eventually came to this conclusion... It's a visa that's not a visa.

Re: The EU is about to sell our most sensitive data to the US for visa-free travel

#150

Post by maratc »

cromka wrote: post #122
joeblubaugh wrote: post #114

This is exactly what the EU does for foreigners entering

It would be the same if US also shared US nationals fingerprints with EU.

Instead, the EU is going to collect the US nationals' fingerprints at the EU points of entry.
Post reply on HN