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The EU is about to sell our most sensitive data to the US for visa-free travel

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Re: The EU is about to sell our most sensitive data to the US for visa-free travel

#131

Post by NietTim »

So let me get this straight:

- Currently travelers to the US need to give biometric data each time they enter

- New DB connection between EU and US for this purpose

- People will _still_ need to give biometric data each time they enter in order to validate that they carry valid information

Further more, they claim that _the US_ will only request data from travelers. But, my country doesn't know if I travel and where. So the supposed privacy guarantees are empty claims. It's not 2012 anymore. Everyone knows better, as soon as they get access to that DB, they will start working on scraping all data from it.

There is 0 upsides to this.

Re: The EU is about to sell our most sensitive data to the US for visa-free travel

#132

Post by Ylpertnodi »

was_a_dev wrote: post #58

As an aside, I always find it amusing that as a British person that have visited both the US and the Schengen area since the new entry/exit system. Both the US and EU have taken my biometric information (i.e fingerprints) but the UK government has not.

My UK passport from 8 years ago has biometric info.

Re: The EU is about to sell our most sensitive data to the US for visa-free travel

#133

Post by traceroute66 »

speak_plainly wrote: post #54

This is a good thing for travellers. In border security there are generally two camps, one that uses data and intelligence to go after the worst, large-scale criminal operations and networks, and generally makes travelling easy for the average person, and the other is like traditional cops using traditional tactics… the kind that will miss the person smuggling a kilogram of cocaine in their suitcase but will go after…

> In border security there are generally two camps

Well, there is a third camp. Israeli-style bio-social profiling of 100% of travelers.

That really makes travel awful !

Re: The EU is about to sell our most sensitive data to the US for visa-free travel

#134

Post by koverstreet »

rawgabbit wrote: post #99
rafram wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> because they were too stupid to figure out US citizens don't have to do that This seems extremely unlikely to me. Did you stand in the noncitizens line by mistake?

It's called racial profiling.

U.S. border agents really are just worse. Much worse. (I can't say what racial profiling adds to that, I can only speak to my own experiences).

I've been routinely grilled and extensively searched many times just crossing between the U.S. and Canada - the most hilarious instance being when I was crossing from Yukon Territory back to Alaska some 10 years ago.

In Latin America, things are considerably more professional, and the government officials don't act like they hate you and just want you to go away. Europe's fine too.

Re: The EU is about to sell our most sensitive data to the US for visa-free travel

#135

Post by jltsiren »

naravara wrote: post #112
mothballed wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The average US border official is a (angry) moron (with a badge and a gun). They've literally fingerprinted me on entry with a US passport because they were too stupid to figure out US citizens don't have to do that. I have been interrogated by CBP to ask if I "work in the country" despite being a citizen. Anything that changes the process from the simplest one-size-fits all will be fucked up, they cannot differentia…

I’m a minority who, despite visually fitting the stereotype of a plane hijacker, have found our passport control people to be nothing but professional and courteous. The overall system seems to be pretty efficient about moving people through, despite the airports I’m going through being out of date and not set up for the volumes of traffic they get. This is a marked contrast to the rest of our immigration, border pat…

In my experience, the airports could handle the passenger volume, but they lack the people. I've entered the US 25–30 times, and almost every time, there have been long lines and empty immigration counters.

Re: The EU is about to sell our most sensitive data to the US for visa-free travel

#136

Post by throw-the-towel »

gib444 wrote: post #87

On "selling out" claims. Yet again people not reading the article and trying to misrepresent who was the driving force: > In 2022, the US government announced that it would require access to biometric databases of countries if they wish to keep visa exemption for their citizens travelling to the US Big bad eu !!11!?!

So, that wasn't even Trump.

Re: The EU is about to sell our most sensitive data to the US for visa-free travel

#137

Post by dinkelberg »

eigenspace wrote: post #118
maratc wrote: post #12

The point missing in the article is that, in order to enter the US, one needs to give the US Govt their photo and fingerprints ("biometric data") anyway. There are two options: visa-free with the biometric data passing on the wire (no hassle), or visa (a major hassle) and biometric data passing in the airport (a minor one). As a side note, the EU also collects photo and fingerprints from visitors now. Whereas in the…

What's unclear to me here is this: under this new scheme does the USA get access to the biometric data of people not travelling to the USA?

From the analysis linked in TFA:

"The automated query can be based on: * Identity information included in the application or in travel documents, such as name, date of birth, national ID number, and/or * the fingerprint of an individual."

Sounds like they could send requests to that computer system just based on publicly available information on a person like name and date of birth, even if the person never applied for a visa or tried to enter the US.

Re: The EU is about to sell our most sensitive data to the US for visa-free travel

#138

Post by dataflow »

beej71 wrote: post #128
maratc wrote: post #12

The point missing in the article is that, in order to enter the US, one needs to give the US Govt their photo and fingerprints ("biometric data") anyway. There are two options: visa-free with the biometric data passing on the wire (no hassle), or visa (a major hassle) and biometric data passing in the airport (a minor one). As a side note, the EU also collects photo and fingerprints from visitors now. Whereas in the…

This all reminds me about how RealID was vital to secure us from terrorism, and it took 20 years to get it in place... with no significant terrorist actions in that timeframe. IMHO this level of tracking ain't worth the safety gained. Seems like safety gain is just the excuse at this point.

Edit: sorry, I misunderstood the post.

Re: The EU is about to sell our most sensitive data to the US for visa-free travel

#139

Post by eigenspace »

dinkelberg wrote: post #137
eigenspace wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's unclear to me here is this: under this new scheme does the USA get access to the biometric data of people not travelling to the USA?

From the analysis linked in TFA: "The automated query can be based on: * Identity information included in the application or in travel documents, such as name, date of birth, national ID number, and/or * the fingerprint of an individual." Sounds like they could send requests to that computer system just based on publicly available information on a person like name and date of birth, even if the person never applied f…

Well, a national ID number isnt usually publicly available info, even if it can be obtained by the US government through illicit means.

But yeah, it does sound that way, but certainly not clear cut to me what the situation is. I.e. does the agreement involve clauses about what to do if this is abused? Do we have a way to detect if theyre using this on non-travellers? Etc.

Re: The EU is about to sell our most sensitive data to the US for visa-free travel

#140

Post by skrebbel »

speak_plainly wrote: post #54

This is a good thing for travellers. In border security there are generally two camps, one that uses data and intelligence to go after the worst, large-scale criminal operations and networks, and generally makes travelling easy for the average person, and the other is like traditional cops using traditional tactics… the kind that will miss the person smuggling a kilogram of cocaine in their suitcase but will go after…

Hey that’s not what “intelligence” means. What you’re arguing for is data-driven automation, taking the human out of the loop. You’re describing “computer says no” level border control, with Google-level human support (ie none) and somehow spinning that as better than real human cops doing what they do best.

Maybe this resonates in the American case where cops are notoriously undertrained and over-violent, but I gotta say it sounds extremely dystopian to me. All-power computerized control isn’t “intelligence”.

It’s also a false dichotomy. You can have lots of automation with humans in the loop. Humans can use automation to be faster and this is common.

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