Live data from Hacker News

Self-Powered Trailers Promise Leaner Freight Runs

spectrum.ieee.org

31–40 of 73 posts

Re: Self-Powered Trailers Promise Leaner Freight Runs

#31

I think a cool application is that someone with a remote control could park these or manipulate them in the logistics park while the tractor trucks can immediately pick a different trailer and leave

You could join lots of these together, put them onto a pair of parallel metal beams and move them between major hubs.

Re: Self-Powered Trailers Promise Leaner Freight Runs

#32
post #31

I think a cool application is that someone with a remote control could park these or manipulate them in the logistics park while the tractor trucks can immediately pick a different trailer and leave

You could join lots of these together, put them onto a pair of parallel metal beams and move them between major hubs.

C'mon. That's so stupid! It'll never work. You'd have to put so much metal in the ground. Way too expensive! It'll never happen. What if the ground isn't flat? Huh? Did you think of that? Or if there are any curves? Metal beams are straight, so there's just no way it'd work.

Re: Self-Powered Trailers Promise Leaner Freight Runs

#33
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that's the thing: you already have to pay a driver to sit around! In Europe there's (simplified) a mandatory 45-minute rest break after 4.5 hours of driving. Similarly, there's a mandatory 11-hour rest period after the daily maximum of 10 hours of driving. And it is very strictly enforced, with every commercial truck having been equipped with a sealed and certified data logger, plenty of random checks by traffic…

I think many long-haul truckers work in pairs for this reason?

And split the revenue? No way Jose. Team driving is not preferred.

Re: Self-Powered Trailers Promise Leaner Freight Runs

#34
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In practice it's of course not so simple. Every truck that passes you (or that you pass) will suck you right in if your tow vehicle isn't heavy enough or you don't have good enough grip. Also, (RV/drum) trailer brakes suck so hard that you really want a vehicle with some additional stopping power other than regular brakes (heavy duty transmission, big engine, and diesel exhaust or compression brake). E-brakes work we…

Or flip the narrative and put the steering wheel in the RV trailer and tow your tiny car behind it! Wait...

Obligatory VW trailer assist ad:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvZuSxibyYE

Re: Self-Powered Trailers Promise Leaner Freight Runs

#35
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that's the thing: you already have to pay a driver to sit around! In Europe there's (simplified) a mandatory 45-minute rest break after 4.5 hours of driving. Similarly, there's a mandatory 11-hour rest period after the daily maximum of 10 hours of driving. And it is very strictly enforced, with every commercial truck having been equipped with a sealed and certified data logger, plenty of random checks by traffic…

I think many long-haul truckers work in pairs for this reason?

You can, but (at least in Europe) it is rarely done.

A big problem is that it doesn't count as a daily rest if the vehicle is moving. This means in practice that the longest you can drive in pairs is 4.5h A, 4.5h B, 4.5h A, 4.5h B, 1h A, 1h B, followed by at least 9 hours downtime. Still a 20-hour non-stop drive, but not even remotely 24/7. You'd need additional standby drivers at a remote base, at which point you could also just swap the trailer to another truck.

In practice this means it is rarely worth it. Combine it with the schedule going out-of-sync with the days, and for regular freight it is almost certainly more expensive than just giving each driver their own truck.

The exception to the rule is high-priority cargo which for one reason or another can't be done via air. Take Formula 1, for example: with back-to-back races they have just three days to tear everything down, drive it across Europe, and build it back up again. It's a 15-hour drive without any delays, so having a solo driver rest for an additional 9 hours halfway through is unacceptable. With a driver pair it is easily achievable, and the additional costs are irrelevant.

Re: Self-Powered Trailers Promise Leaner Freight Runs

#36

In the US, commercial trailers are used like these crappy sheds, you go get one and the ABS unit is gone, the only thing worth stealing. For any company where this doesn’t hold it’s a big deal. The bigger deal is really RV trailers. You power assist, with simple motors controlled by pulling, and you can pull a huge one with ANY car, you don’t need truck, just modified mirrors. Plus the RV trailer benefits from slow s…

Uh, you still need suspension on the tow vehicle capable of the tongue weight. And enough mass that a gust of wind doesn’t push you over a lane.

Re: Self-Powered Trailers Promise Leaner Freight Runs

#37
post #20
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that's the thing: you already have to pay a driver to sit around! In Europe there's (simplified) a mandatory 45-minute rest break after 4.5 hours of driving. Similarly, there's a mandatory 11-hour rest period after the daily maximum of 10 hours of driving. And it is very strictly enforced, with every commercial truck having been equipped with a sealed and certified data logger, plenty of random checks by traffic…

At least from the truckers I watch on YouTube from Germany, there is already a shortage of rest stops for trucks. Sometimes you can see them even in the entrance of the rest stops, parked in a dangerous spot. If they all have to charge, then that becomes a problem, because they can’t find a space even „creatively“. Not saying that electric trucks are bad, just one more problem to solve

The hard part is getting the NIMBYs to let you build any truck stop. Adding a bunch of chargers afterwards is a piece of cake.

Re: Self-Powered Trailers Promise Leaner Freight Runs

#38
post #26
post #22

Even a version without AC charging (just solar + regen) with a smaller battery seems like a good deal

The amount of solar power available to the square area on top of a trailer is negligible compared to the energy required to haul it long distances. Regen braking would probably only be worth it in some limited circumstances.

"Pavel Gilman, vice president of sales and marketing at Nivalis, breaks down where those savings come from: roughly 30 to 35 percent from the electric axle during braking and deceleration, 11 to 15 percent from the rooftop solar panels, and the remainder (roughly half) from grid charging during parking stops."

11..15% Is not the bulk of the energy. But it's significantly more than "negligible".

Note that this trailer could be expected to be on the road most of the time. Which may not even be the common case: demand for goods varies a lot, so I'd expect that a lot of logistics companies aren't fully booked all the time. Maybe have a few drivers/trucks on the road, and a bunch of trailers on a parking lot doing nothing. In that scenario: need a trailer? Use whichever one is charged up furthest, while at a loading dock top it up (grid power/in-building storage) to whatever is needed to complete the trip, off it goes.

Also for US-based naysayers: Europe is a very different environment than the US. Most long hauls aren't that long, and there's a lot of [industrial zone local distribution center] inner city traffic. Read: lots of start-stop, low speed cornering & wait time.

Post reply on HN