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Airbus Takes Flight from AWS

theregister.com

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Re: Airbus Takes Flight from AWS

#71

Post by ubermonkey »

inigyou wrote: post #46

I don't fully understand why companies use AWS. Is it a management driven or engineering driven decision? I assume management - in big companies some exec from Amazon comes to play golf, and in small companies the managers copy what the big companies are doing?

I can try to answer for US.

We're small (It's been ... messy. I'm not certain we'll stay. It's easier in the sense that we can bring up arbitrarily many new machines without needing to call Dell when a host gets full, but it's definitely not cheaper. And weirdball AWS-only things get in the way. Oh, and literally nothing is simple or easy in administration or setup.

If I had it to do over again, I think I'd have bitten the bullet and leased more boxes instead.

Re: Airbus Takes Flight from AWS

#73

Post by maccard »

Foobar8568 wrote: post #67
ownagefool wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My take is it's actually because of poor performance of internal teams. With a cloud provider, you can get an account by filling out a sign-up page and handing over a credit card. Internal teams will often hide behind Bureaucracy and a ticket system, with processes that make hosting a simple web app take multiple quarters. Now there are layered reasons for that, some of them with legitimate basis, but at the end of t…

Reality of AWS or Azure in Europe : - Can't provision new ressources without calling them - If you get defects, you might be with Azure Europe Head after weeks of escalation and the only thing he wants to hear is if Microsoft can do a success story with you - Gaslighting you on issues I agree with you, we went from terrible service, to terrible service with no leverage.

I’ve had this problem with azure in the US or the EU, but I’ve never really had this problem with AWS in Europe.

Re: Airbus Takes Flight from AWS

#74

Post by ownagefool »

Foobar8568 wrote: post #67
ownagefool wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My take is it's actually because of poor performance of internal teams. With a cloud provider, you can get an account by filling out a sign-up page and handing over a credit card. Internal teams will often hide behind Bureaucracy and a ticket system, with processes that make hosting a simple web app take multiple quarters. Now there are layered reasons for that, some of them with legitimate basis, but at the end of t…

Reality of AWS or Azure in Europe : - Can't provision new ressources without calling them - If you get defects, you might be with Azure Europe Head after weeks of escalation and the only thing he wants to hear is if Microsoft can do a success story with you - Gaslighting you on issues I agree with you, we went from terrible service, to terrible service with no leverage.

You also get internal cloud teams that "own cloud" taking away your ability to get accounts without going through the same all broken processes.

Re: Airbus Takes Flight from AWS

#75

Post by hhh »

reacharavindh wrote: post #69
ownagefool wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My take is it's actually because of poor performance of internal teams. With a cloud provider, you can get an account by filling out a sign-up page and handing over a credit card. Internal teams will often hide behind Bureaucracy and a ticket system, with processes that make hosting a simple web app take multiple quarters. Now there are layered reasons for that, some of them with legitimate basis, but at the end of t…

We were contemplating just this as a lunch time conversation among few engineers. Why can’t we have a sort of internal currency in the company and let teams use it as their “budget” to get things done? Infra team’s budget is broken up by the “user teams’ budgets + markup. Think your team needs a rlasticsearch cluster of your own versus the “managed” one by the infra team’s? Spend your budget accordingly. Want an incr…

Yea layer some more bureaucracy on there… i’m sure adding another sticking point will make it better

Re: Airbus Takes Flight from AWS

#77

Post by prasadjoglekar »

inigyou wrote: post #41
Zsfe510asG wrote: post #37

Is Airbus still using Google workspaces for mail? Nice vector for industrial espionage. Why did Airbus go to "the cloud" in the first place? It seems complete overkill for a company like that.

Everyone went to "the cloud" because they want to make their IT problems someone else's problem. It's no different from the previous era of MSPs, except that there are now only, like, five MSPs in the world. Note: I mean the Google Docs and Microsoft 365 type of cloud not the AWS and Azure type of cloud

A symptom of the larger problem to want to divest and outsource everything not considered a "core competence". Hence the outsourcing of everything from housekeeping to IT

Re: Airbus Takes Flight from AWS

#78

Post by ownagefool »

reacharavindh wrote: post #69
ownagefool wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My take is it's actually because of poor performance of internal teams. With a cloud provider, you can get an account by filling out a sign-up page and handing over a credit card. Internal teams will often hide behind Bureaucracy and a ticket system, with processes that make hosting a simple web app take multiple quarters. Now there are layered reasons for that, some of them with legitimate basis, but at the end of t…

We were contemplating just this as a lunch time conversation among few engineers. Why can’t we have a sort of internal currency in the company and let teams use it as their “budget” to get things done? Infra team’s budget is broken up by the “user teams’ budgets + markup. Think your team needs a rlasticsearch cluster of your own versus the “managed” one by the infra team’s? Spend your budget accordingly. Want an incr…

Honestly, I think you're boiling the ocean there.

Internal hosting teams ( cloud or on-prem ) should work more like public hosting environments and should focus on:

- Segregating workloads. If amazon can host a hacked service on their hosting stack without every tenant immediately being compromised, you can too.

- Self-Service. Teams should be able to just get accounts and do stuff without asking anyone.

- Building assurance. Now you've made it easy for teams to do small things, you're more likely to get more users and have less shadow-IT. You can now try and build organizational assurance without making teams suffer.

A team just needs petty cash and a cost code for a small amount of space in dev land.

What everyone does instead if ask for the planning to be done and completed upfront, which isn't realistic for a team you just stood up trying to do UR and a POC.

Re: Airbus Takes Flight from AWS

#79

Post by bob1029 »

inigyou wrote: post #46

I don't fully understand why companies use AWS. Is it a management driven or engineering driven decision? I assume management - in big companies some exec from Amazon comes to play golf, and in small companies the managers copy what the big companies are doing?

Not enough humans to deal with physical machines and the compliance issues around them.

I agree if we are operating a cat meme distribution business that AWS starts to look a bit overkill. Something like a banking consultancy is a different matter. Good luck passing due diligence as a bank's vendor when you are also physically responsible for the machines. You can do this, but it sucks and it's your entire job + overtime + on call.

AWS has a dedicated feature (artifact) that can serve as the foundation of your compliance package. If you are racking your own machines you get to start with a blank pile of forms.

Re: Airbus Takes Flight from AWS

#80

Post by hahahaa »

ubermonkey wrote: post #71
inigyou wrote: post #46

I don't fully understand why companies use AWS. Is it a management driven or engineering driven decision? I assume management - in big companies some exec from Amazon comes to play golf, and in small companies the managers copy what the big companies are doing?

I can try to answer for US. We're small ( It's been ... messy. I'm not certain we'll stay. It's easier in the sense that we can bring up arbitrarily many new machines without needing to call Dell when a host gets full, but it's definitely not cheaper. And weirdball AWS-only things get in the way. Oh, and literally nothing is simple or easy in administration or setup. If I had it to do over again, I think I'd have bit…

It ain't cheaper on AWS lesson getting relearned everywhere.
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