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When can a power company take your land for data center infrastructure?

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Re: When can a power company take your land for data center infrastructure?

#81

Post by giantg2 »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #59
left-struck wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Basically I just thought the leukaemia claim is quite an extraordinary claim, which requires extraordinary evidence if you’re trying to convince a sensible person of your claim. I know a thing or two about rf, emf and electricity in general and I don’t see why or how these hv wires would cause cancer, or if they did why would it be specifically leukaemia. I’m fully aware though that before we knew about nuclear radia…

> I know a thing or two about rf, emf and electricity in general and I don’t see why or how these hv wires would cause cancer, or if they did why would it be specifically leukaemia. Probably the same theory for how a microwave cooks food. > I’ve also anecdotally noticed that people are concerned about many things where there is like very marginal evidence that maybe this is slightly bad for you but then regularly eng…

"Probably the same theory for how a microwave cooks food."

The actual change to look at isn't really the heating, but rather that RF has been known to increase glucose metabolism in affected cells. My own theory is that if that is true, you're essentially increasing cell aging and oxidative stress with the increased metabolism. Who knows if it's true. The effect seems small and the exposures need to be longterm.

Re: When can a power company take your land for data center infrastructure?

#82

Post by inigyou »

M95D wrote: post #31
bob1029 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be even more nuanced, the land is not typically taken entirely. The more typical solution is an easement with compensation for the land owner to cover the reduction in utility. Transmission lines are pretty harmless when considering things that could be built instead. Zero emissions, silent, no illumination, etc.

> Transmission lines are pretty harmless Debatable. Some studies found this: https://emfradar.com/articles/power-lines-childhood-leukemia Then some other studies mostly invalidated that. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41416-018-0097-7

There's a lot of people saying they aren't harmless but there's no credible evidence they aren't harmless. It's like flat earth, you know, there's no evidence the earth is flat.

Re: When can a power company take your land for data center infrastructure?

#83

Post by inigyou »

throwaway667555 wrote: post #38
SuperNinKenDo wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, strictly speaking, it's /more/ debatable. Using eminent domain to seize land for the data centre itself gets a much more generally negative reaction, while seizing it for the purpose of infrastructure to supply said datacentre - and therefore, at least arguably, alleviate strain on the infrastructure used by everyone else - has more nuance and more room for debate.

Data centers increase strain on the grid, so their supply lines do too.

That makes no sense. Building new grid increases strain on the grid? No, it reduces strain, that's why they're doing it.

Re: When can a power company take your land for data center infrastructure?

#84

Post by mschuster91 »

_trampeltier wrote: post #75
mschuster91 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Latency.

Latency for interaction with AI? For something the user use browsers and electron apps. A ping goes around the whole world before your pressed key is visible on the screen.

> Latency for interaction with AI?

It's not just AI. Video streaming or game streaming both depend on close proximity to the end user, alone because the data volume would completely overwhelm backhaul links... that's why Youtube, Netflix and a lot of CDNs all have colo facilities close to major population centers and their regionally dominant ISPs.

It can be significantly cheaper to pay colo fees at an ISP' s data center than to pay interconnection fees for bulk transfers.

Re: When can a power company take your land for data center infrastructure?

#85

Post by inigyou »

DecoySalamander wrote: post #46
lenkite wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A blank cheque on corpo infrastructure just means that billionaires win and everyone else loses. At that point, just paint "Peasant Slave" on your forehead if you don't have a multi-million lobbying group at the state and federal level. "All your base are belong to us" => Billionaires of USA When that happens rename the nation to Corporate States of America as well.

The only losers are foreign adversaries who would prefer it if your country didn't develop high-tech infrastructure and businesses.

Good point. Let's seize your house and make it a semiconductor fab.

Re: When can a power company take your land for data center infrastructure?

#86

Post by sznio »

thejokeisonme wrote: post #76
giantg2 wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These are not silent nor zero emission. These do emit large electromagnetic fields that interfere with some electronics. There are also some studies that show higher risk of childhood leukemia and potentially negative affects to sensitive groups such as people with neurodiverse conditions. They also tend to hum and crackle. At times you will have helicopters doing line work too.

Having zero knowledge about these studies I have high credence they are baloney.

you've never walked under a high voltage power line? even driving a car under it you can hear the radio being weird. i assume it can make life miserable for a ham radio enthusiast. also, walking beneath one, you can hear the crackle, which is why nobody places a power line above homes.

as for them causing leukemia i'd not consider that realistic

Re: When can a power company take your land for data center infrastructure?

#87

Post by sokoloff »

giantg2 wrote: post #81
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I know a thing or two about rf, emf and electricity in general and I don’t see why or how these hv wires would cause cancer, or if they did why would it be specifically leukaemia. Probably the same theory for how a microwave cooks food. > I’ve also anecdotally noticed that people are concerned about many things where there is like very marginal evidence that maybe this is slightly bad for you but then regularly eng…

"Probably the same theory for how a microwave cooks food." The actual change to look at isn't really the heating, but rather that RF has been known to increase glucose metabolism in affected cells. My own theory is that if that is true, you're essentially increasing cell aging and oxidative stress with the increased metabolism. Who knows if it's true. The effect seems small and the exposures need to be longterm.

Surely power lines running directly across a residential property represent a long-term exposure.

(I personally doubt there is a significant risk, but if there is, these powerline easements would be quite risky to the residents in terms of ongoing/continuous exposure.)

Re: When can a power company take your land for data center infrastructure?

#88

Post by high_na_euv »

_trampeltier wrote: post #75
mschuster91 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Latency.

Latency for interaction with AI? For something the user use browsers and electron apps. A ping goes around the whole world before your pressed key is visible on the screen.

Dafuck? No way lol

Playing from eu on us servers is not playable

>A ping goes around the whole world before your pressed key is visible on the screen.

Re: When can a power company take your land for data center infrastructure?

#90

Post by throwaway742 »

Frieren wrote: post #25

I am all for Communism and giving more priority to projects that help all society. But this is not it. It would help if the power grid was public property, thou. It would help if the power grid was build so the majority of citizens profit. It would help if the power grid was build for someone else than big tech. Meanwhile building railroads is impossible. Could we convince AI companies to build their datacenters on t…

The rare HN commie. I'm aware of one other one besides you and myself.
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