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Qwen 3.8

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Re: Qwen 3.8

#651

Post by gabriel666smith »

sdoering wrote: post #628
cnhwl wrote: post #583

I’m a developer from China. So, is this what Hacker News is all about? Whenever a model comes from China, the comments section stops discussing its technical architecture, optimisation points or real-world performance, and instead starts going on about politics, human rights and all that rubbish? To be honest, we Chinese IT professionals possess a genuine geek spirit. That’s why you’re lagging behind in open-source c…

> human rights and all that rubbish Denying human rights. Classic. Sorry - you instantly lost any respect I could have maybe had for your opinion.

I don't think you're taking the good-faith reading of the sentence's grammar here, which is:

"[When China is mentioned] the comments section stops discussing [technical aspects], and instead starts going on about [non-technical aspects], and all that [stuff which I do not feel is relevant]."

I'm struggling, though, to find a good-faith reading of what you meant by:

"Denying human rights. Classic. Sorry - you instantly lost any respect I could have maybe had for your opinion."

Specifically, "classic" - classic what? "Classic" meaning "a trait you personally believe is more prevalent in people who (might be) citizens of a specific country"?

Hopefully the good-faith interpretation of GP's comment, which you might have unintentionally missed, will help you engage with their opinion with more respect.

I think it's an easy opinion to empathise with personally. I would be enormously frustrated myself, on an individual level, if interesting technical achievements made by companies in my own country were overshadowed by political discussion about the actions of the country overall, when spoken about on technical forums.

This would be especially true for me if I - as an individual - disagreed with politically with my country's leadership. Frustration at a topic of discourse is not mutually exclusive with being in favour of human rights.

I don't think GP has done themselves any favours with the broad statements that close their comment, and is clearly frustrated themselves. That there's mutual frustration is probably a sign that empathy on both sides might lead to a really productive discussion - but focusing on the more substantive points they've made, rather than escalating by misinterpreting the less important aspects of what they commented - is what will lead to that.

Re: Qwen 3.8

#652

Post by [deleted] »

fragmede wrote: post #649
cnhwl wrote: post #583

I’m a developer from China. So, is this what Hacker News is all about? Whenever a model comes from China, the comments section stops discussing its technical architecture, optimisation points or real-world performance, and instead starts going on about politics, human rights and all that rubbish? To be honest, we Chinese IT professionals possess a genuine geek spirit. That’s why you’re lagging behind in open-source c…

Welcome! What other sites like v2ex.com are out there on your side of the world?

[deleted]

Re: Qwen 3.8

#653

Post by d5lt5 »

hugmynutus wrote: post #376
gardnr wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's hard to say what their motivation is. The Chinese firms seem to be working hard to commoditize intelligence which may be the most effective way to debase American frontier labs. And yeah: it also happens to be really good for humanity.

> It's hard to say what their motivation is. Involution is a major problem in Chinese industries [1]. Where companies will sell their products at a loss, effectively playing fiscal chicken [2] with one another to dominate a market. It is such an issue the government has had to step in to prevent EV companies from destroying themselves by more-or-less requiring companies sell their goods at a profit [3]. The straight…

Except that there are 1.4 billion people in China that don't have access to US models.

Re: Qwen 3.8

#654

Post by [deleted] »

sdoering wrote: post #628
cnhwl wrote: post #583

I’m a developer from China. So, is this what Hacker News is all about? Whenever a model comes from China, the comments section stops discussing its technical architecture, optimisation points or real-world performance, and instead starts going on about politics, human rights and all that rubbish? To be honest, we Chinese IT professionals possess a genuine geek spirit. That’s why you’re lagging behind in open-source c…

> human rights and all that rubbish Denying human rights. Classic. Sorry - you instantly lost any respect I could have maybe had for your opinion.

[deleted]

Re: Qwen 3.8

#655

Post by midwain »

sdoering wrote: post #628
cnhwl wrote: post #583

I’m a developer from China. So, is this what Hacker News is all about? Whenever a model comes from China, the comments section stops discussing its technical architecture, optimisation points or real-world performance, and instead starts going on about politics, human rights and all that rubbish? To be honest, we Chinese IT professionals possess a genuine geek spirit. That’s why you’re lagging behind in open-source c…

> human rights and all that rubbish Denying human rights. Classic. Sorry - you instantly lost any respect I could have maybe had for your opinion.

> Denying human rights.

Taking words out of context. Classic. Sorry - you instantly lost any respect I could have maybe had for your opinion.

Re: Qwen 3.8

#656

Post by benterix »

cnhwl wrote: post #583

I’m a developer from China. So, is this what Hacker News is all about? Whenever a model comes from China, the comments section stops discussing its technical architecture, optimisation points or real-world performance, and instead starts going on about politics, human rights and all that rubbish? To be honest, we Chinese IT professionals possess a genuine geek spirit. That’s why you’re lagging behind in open-source c…

> human rights and all that rubbish

While I understand your point, please think a bit how you formulated the sentence above.

Re: Qwen 3.8

#657

Post by phs318u »

Off topic, but comment threads like this, where the early comments rabbit hole into something I didn’t come to read, really make me wish HN had collapsible comment controls. My phone screen nearly melted from the insane amount of swiping/scrolling to get to the part of the discussion about the actual LLM.

Re: Qwen 3.8

#658

Post by benterix »

windsignaling wrote: post #487
mceachen wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please don't conflate a volunteer effort with no expected economic gain with a very well funded company (or fleet of companies). With the CCP's highly successful track record with subsuming other markets, Occam's razor applies to why they're doing this.

There is clearly an anti-China bias here. Show me comments demonstrating the same level of distrust against Google for open-sourcing projects like Tensorflow, Kubernetes, Flutter, Chromium, etc.

There is a lot of distrust against Google and Microsoft here, also when they opensource stuff, and Chromium and AOSP are great counterexamples.

Re: Qwen 3.8

#659

Post by boutell »

phs318u wrote: post #657

Off topic, but comment threads like this, where the early comments rabbit hole into something I didn’t come to read, really make me wish HN had collapsible comment controls. My phone screen nearly melted from the insane amount of swiping/scrolling to get to the part of the discussion about the actual LLM.

I'm making good use of the next button on original replies, but it's true that walking back through the parent button is a long walk sometimes.

Re: Qwen 3.8

#660

Post by Schlagbohrer »

I have been using the docling software for PDF and XLSX reading/viewing/comprehension by my local qwen3.6. Claude was telling me that docling includes within it a very small LLM model just to assist with what is basically "super OCR". We are definitely in this era of ultra-mega-huge frontier models and super-tiny-micro models, all finding their uses.

On an aside I tested docling by giving it the Ronin TTRPG rulebook PDF and it did an astounding job of converting it all into .txt and .md. Given the wild graphic design of the book that's pretty astounding. Next we'll see if it can read the other Borg books like Mörk Borg and Cy Borg, which are also famous for their messy information.

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