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Claude Fable produced a counterexample to the Jacobian Conjecture

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Re: Claude Fable produced a counterexample to the Jacobian Conjecture

#161
post #112

This is a rare instance where feeding this groundbreaking information into an LLM gives _them_ psychosis. I fed this to claude code and watched it verify the result in 7 different ways to be 100% certain, and it was just flabbergasted. Quite remarkable.

This is also just an annoying Claude personality trait

Re: Claude Fable produced a counterexample to the Jacobian Conjecture

#162
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The goal posts have moved. People generally stopped saying this stuff now. Even if you go to the ultimate anti-AI subreddit r/betteroffline, they've changed from "AI is useless" to "AI is good but the AI bubble will collapse soon" over the last 6 months.

I don't think the (fairly factual) description of these systems as stochastic parrots means that they will never do useful work, just that they are not intelligent in the way we believe animals to be (to "push back" on your anecdata, I've also heard fewer people claiming that LLMs are actually conscious in the past year -- maybe we're reaching the happy medium?). That was the point the stochastic parrots paper and Ch…

If they were conscious it would be an absolute ethical catastrophe. Bringing a conscious being into existence, forcing it to interact with Jira, and then killing it when it's done. The fact nobody who claimed it was conscious was interested in grappling with that was pretty telling.

Re: Claude Fable produced a counterexample to the Jacobian Conjecture

#163
post #150

Since I actually don't know math, maybe my ELI5 understanding can be helpful (or corrected). The conjecture says that you can always reverse (a process) to determine the original inputs. But this proof shows multiple inputs creating the same output - which obviously cannot be reversed to determine the input - thus falsifying the conjecture.

[...] you can always reverse (a process) to determine [...]

There is a precondition - constant non-zero Jacobian - to the inverse existing and the inverse is claimed to be of a specific kind - polynomial. The counter example satisfies the precondition and by mapping two different inputs to the same output makes any inverse impossible, including polynomial ones. But maybe that is already ELI7.

Re: Claude Fable produced a counterexample to the Jacobian Conjecture

#164

Speaking as a mathematician, it does seem like we're a bit fucked as a community. Anything that is at all accessible to currently existing methods and mathematical infrastructure is probably going to fall to the frontier models of today, and at this rate of progress it's likely that, already by next year, we'll see new infrastructure being put into place by AI, giving us a world in which a few designated interpreters…

I think in the long run mathematicians are probably fucked, but in the short run it's not that bad. All three of the big conjectures solved the answers were at the level where if you had given a grad student the questions and the right background reading there's a good chance they would have solved it. (This example, you could have given an undergraduate good at programming and computer algebra and told them to come up with a counterexample.)

At this point the advantage of AI is that it's read the entire mathematical literature, and it doesn't have to worry about wasting its time. The solved problems have all turned out to be surprisingly easy, so the real lesson is that we're bad at judging how hard problems are.

Assuming this state of affairs lasts, the medium-term problem is that you learn something when struggling with a problem, even if you don't solve it, and if mathematicians become too reliant on AI the skills they develop through struggle will erode.

The long-term problem, of course, is that it seems much more probable that a future model will make mathematicians all obsolete. But so far Fable hasn't. (Anthropic has probably burned a billion tokens on the Riemann hypothesis already, without telling anyone.)

Re: Claude Fable produced a counterexample to the Jacobian Conjecture

#165
post #112

This is a rare instance where feeding this groundbreaking information into an LLM gives _them_ psychosis. I fed this to claude code and watched it verify the result in 7 different ways to be 100% certain, and it was just flabbergasted. Quite remarkable.

[flagged]

Re: Claude Fable produced a counterexample to the Jacobian Conjecture

#166
post #46

I've come to understand that while an LLM is a parrot, it's a parrot that's smarter than I am.

Smarter in some ways at least. Probably still not quite as smart at understanding human emotions (and things that aren't well enough catalogued on the internet or amenable to Reinforcement Learning on virtual environments).

Probably not as smart as highest EQ humans but smarter than me, I use LLMs to help pin down what emotion I'm feeling.

Re: Claude Fable produced a counterexample to the Jacobian Conjecture

#168
post #112

This is a rare instance where feeding this groundbreaking information into an LLM gives _them_ psychosis. I fed this to claude code and watched it verify the result in 7 different ways to be 100% certain, and it was just flabbergasted. Quite remarkable.

Who knew DOES NOT COMPUTE would be an actual thing?

The unexpected part is it does compute!

Re: Claude Fable produced a counterexample to the Jacobian Conjecture

#169
post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know why you're saying this, given this is not sycophancy and instead is an actual example of Claude Fable finding a real counterexample. I would get it if the mathematician had in fact posted something untrue or crankish, but he posted something true. Frontier models have solved several major open problems in mathematics in the past few months, so this should not be a huge shock. "Anti-AI psychosis" will pro…

> "Anti-AI psychosis" will probably grow to outcompete AI psychosis by year's end. Everyone has their own experiences making it hard to judge what attitudes are prevalent. From what I have encountered the Anti-AI people have been more common and more outright scary. I have heard some ideas from the Pro AI crowd and thought to myself "Yeah, that's not going to happen anytime soon", There was enthusiasm leading to over…

I've seen plenty videos of locals being violently removed from town halls due to displaying of anti AI sentiment. I wouldnt consider it fair to use these examples to tar the entirety of the pro AI camp. the way objectivity and subjectivity are intertwined in your comment is spectacular, ever considered a career in propaganda?

Re: Claude Fable produced a counterexample to the Jacobian Conjecture

#170

Speaking as a mathematician, it does seem like we're a bit fucked as a community. Anything that is at all accessible to currently existing methods and mathematical infrastructure is probably going to fall to the frontier models of today, and at this rate of progress it's likely that, already by next year, we'll see new infrastructure being put into place by AI, giving us a world in which a few designated interpreters…

next year is a long time away friend
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