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Americans are angry about data centers. Politicians are feeling the pressure

reuters.com

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Re: Americans are angry about data centers. Politicians are feeling the pressure

#51

Post by happytoexplain »

wahern wrote: post #11
fleventynine wrote: post #6

I think there's room for win-win solutions here; the cost of placating the locals is a rounding error compared to the cost of these data centers. 1. Local governments can require that if the data center peak load is 1.0GW, they must provision transmission and generation capacity for the local region of 1.2GW; the extra power can be given to the neighbors at substantial discount. 2. Construct a public swimming complex…

[flagged]

It's probably worth taking a step away and looking at your position when you find yourself starting with the political argument tropes (sounds like, "my opponents are simply crazy and stupid").

Re: Americans are angry about data centers. Politicians are feeling the pressure

#52

Post by phil21 »

SoftTalker wrote: post #23
onaclov2000 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have been half wondering if it gets bad enough will people be willing to support nuclear power again.

Gen Alpha or whatever the latest rising adults are called might. They are too young to remember any of the disasters

All… three of them if you really try hard? Really only two qualify as disasters to me. Three Mile Island wasn’t great, but certainly not a disaster on any level I can figure.

Re: Americans are angry about data centers. Politicians are feeling the pressure

#53

Post by 0xy »

adriand wrote: post #27
fleventynine wrote: post #6

I think there's room for win-win solutions here; the cost of placating the locals is a rounding error compared to the cost of these data centers. 1. Local governments can require that if the data center peak load is 1.0GW, they must provision transmission and generation capacity for the local region of 1.2GW; the extra power can be given to the neighbors at substantial discount. 2. Construct a public swimming complex…

None of these mitigations (although they’re good ideas) address what I think is the real issue here, which is that people don’t like AI. And why would they, when the dish being served by AI CEOs is job loss with a side of extinction risk. I think many data centre opponents understand that being opposed to AI is not sufficient to halt a local project, so it is noise, water use and power consumption that they latch ont…

AI is not leading to job losses.

Re: Americans are angry about data centers. Politicians are feeling the pressure

#54

Post by phil21 »

ninkendo wrote: post #25
consensus1 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of the above are false, except for 3 which has actually happened in a few cases, though is definitely the outlier as I have been near data centers and couldn't hear a thing. And they provide a lot more jobs than the 0 jobs that were provided by the undeveloped land they are built on.

I wonder what fallacy you’re going to use to justify GPU-heavy data centers using zero water: are you going to take the “they’re closed loop” path, and conveniently ignore that they need to be continually topped off, and that effectively makes them open loop anyway (or that they heat exchange with a separate loop that is evaporated?) Or maybe you’ll just say “sure the water evaporates, but it’ll rain down somewhere s…

Water usage in this context is a rounding error on a rounding error on top of a rounding error when it comes to corn production for ethanol.

Anyone bringing it up does not actually care about the water usage. It’s just a politically easy topic to get traction with. If anyone starts off their anti-datacenter screed with this, it instantly outs them as someone you can ignore as unserious person on the topic.

Plenty of other legitimate reasons to be anti-datacenter but this isn’t one of them.

Re: Americans are angry about data centers. Politicians are feeling the pressure

#55

Post by happytoexplain »

swed420 wrote: post #50
dmitriy_ko wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Data centers use miniscular amount of water. Data center water use is a fake issue.

I've long suspected that monied interests are seeding social media with weak arguments about water as a distraction, and people mindlessly re-share that as part of their identity. Then the other half can come along and "correct" them while the main issue of power is forgotten. Social media gets engagement, and capital gets its data centers. It's the same tired distraction pattern we've seen for a long time now in pol…

What makes their actions mindless, exactly? Is the implication that what they've read is easily falsifiable by the average person? One of the fundamentals to society-scale problem solving is not to dismiss the masses as morons, as much as we often enjoy doing that. You must accept who society is composed of, or else you, by definition, can't fix their problems.

Re: Americans are angry about data centers. Politicians are feeling the pressure

#56

Post by gustavus »

swed420 wrote: post #50
dmitriy_ko wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Data centers use miniscular amount of water. Data center water use is a fake issue.

I've long suspected that monied interests are seeding social media with weak arguments about water as a distraction, and people mindlessly re-share that as part of their identity. Then the other half can come along and "correct" them while the main issue of power is forgotten. Social media gets engagement, and capital gets its data centers. It's the same tired distraction pattern we've seen for a long time now in pol…

I suspect rather foreign actors seed some of the anti data center narrative in order to try and reduce American capability to compete in the space, just like the Soviets did with nuclear in the 60-80s.

Re: Americans are angry about data centers. Politicians are feeling the pressure

#57

Post by everdrive »

jrowen wrote: post #39
everdrive wrote: post #34

Populism is on the rise, and nearly everyone is discontent. The discontent has gotten so out of hand that much of it is quite ridiculous, but it's serious enough that it must be dealt with. Given the past 20 years, I expect politicians to completely fumble this easy layup and find ways to force data centers anyhow.

Everyone may be discontent (which might be a baseline feature of the human experience for many), but is anyone actually willing to do anything about it? Compared to the activism of the 60s and 70s, where so many people seemed willing to put their entire lives on hold for the cause, the fact that there is no major populist uprising against the dismantling of the institution of the presidency leads me to believe there…

>Everyone may be discontent (which might be a baseline feature of the human experience for many), but is anyone actually willing to do anything about it?

Talking to people on HN, the answer is a resounding "NO." If I point out that smart phones are contributing to mental illness and have enabled mass-scale surveillance larger than ever previously thought possible, the response has been "but I might have trouble paying for parking and some restaurants don't have menus."

Re: Americans are angry about data centers. Politicians are feeling the pressure

#58

Post by phil21 »

lostlogin wrote: post #42
ninkendo wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder what fallacy you’re going to use to justify GPU-heavy data centers using zero water: are you going to take the “they’re closed loop” path, and conveniently ignore that they need to be continually topped off, and that effectively makes them open loop anyway (or that they heat exchange with a separate loop that is evaporated?) Or maybe you’ll just say “sure the water evaporates, but it’ll rain down somewhere s…

There has been some talk recently about the impact on water of closed loop systems - as it turns out they get a flush before first use and that contamination from that has been a problem.

As I get older I realize how the news works.

You are talking about a single incident that has been reported 500 times by different organizations.

And that single instance still hasn’t actually been traced back to the datacenter in question. Could have come upstream of that for all we know now.

Re: Americans are angry about data centers. Politicians are feeling the pressure

#59

Post by matteoraso »

nfRfqX5n wrote: post #9
lazzlazzlazz wrote: post #5

[flagged]

our energy bills went up 30% YOY and we are nowhere near a data center. It’s easy to see why people don’t like this

Then it sounds like your energy bill wasn't because of a data centre.

Re: Americans are angry about data centers. Politicians are feeling the pressure

#60

Post by swed420 »

happytoexplain wrote: post #55
swed420 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've long suspected that monied interests are seeding social media with weak arguments about water as a distraction, and people mindlessly re-share that as part of their identity. Then the other half can come along and "correct" them while the main issue of power is forgotten. Social media gets engagement, and capital gets its data centers. It's the same tired distraction pattern we've seen for a long time now in pol…

What makes their actions mindless, exactly? Is the implication that what they've read is easily falsifiable by the average person? One of the fundamentals to society-scale problem solving is not to dismiss the masses as morons, as much as we often enjoy doing that. You must accept who society is composed of, or else you, by definition, can't fix their problems.

Social media fosters that kind of behavior. Plus, people usually don't look into issues before deciding which "side" to be on, and more importantly don't examine if the sides are a manufactured false dichotomy, as they often are.
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