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HomeLab #1: MikroTik as a Home Router

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Re: HomeLab #1: MikroTik as a Home Router

#41

Post by parl_match »

stroebs wrote: post #28

I've been a MikroTik fan since the beginning of my career some 15 years ago now. I have used the MikroTik router and Ubiquiti AP combination ever since. With that said, I can absolutely agree that their UX is terrible for anyone who doesn't specifically know how to configure a MikroTik router. The fact that you have to configure FQ-CoDel yourself and some bufferbloat protection isn't just a built-in option is absurd…

They have an increasingly capable "simple" UI for casual users. It seems like improving it is on their roadmap, as they've been delivering vast improvements in functionality with each major release.

Also, shipping winbox on all platforms has been a huge QoL improvement

Re: HomeLab #1: MikroTik as a Home Router

#42

Post by kmeaw »

luizfelberti wrote: post #32

I love MikroTik, but ffs just let me install something else on it. SONiC or any other Linux would be awesome. I love their hardware, but their software is absolutely awful. Is there any manufacturer out there who produces high quality hardware that is not locked down?

Sometimes having generic Linux capabilities on network equipment makes it hard to understand the configuration. On RouterOS you can just /export the configuration and read a single file. On Linux/SONiC there are multiple ways to do the same thing - you can do one part of configuration using ifupdown, then make some changes in systemd-networkd, a bunch of shell-script DHCP client hooks, rc.local, cron @reboot. Imagine being handed over a router that someone has fixed by doing some runtime reconfiguration (like `ip ro replace default via 192.168.0.1 advmss 1410`) that would vanish with almost no trace (except maybe .bash_histotry) when you reboot it - that won't be possible (without doing very special scheduler/script trickery) on RouterOS.

But if you still want it, MikroTik doesn't try too hard to prevent you from running modified software. You can port OpenWrt, and most modern MikroTik devices use modern enough Linux to use a device tree blob. Try pulling out a dtb from your firmware and ask an LLM to do the initial porting - just don't forget to backup your RouterOS license key first, they are device specific.

Re: HomeLab #1: MikroTik as a Home Router

#43

Post by BLKNSLVR »

cassianoleal wrote: post #33
luizfelberti wrote: post #32

I love MikroTik, but ffs just let me install something else on it. SONiC or any other Linux would be awesome. I love their hardware, but their software is absolutely awful. Is there any manufacturer out there who produces high quality hardware that is not locked down?

The opnSense Deciso boxes are very nice and open - if a bit on the expensive side. https://shop.opnsense.com/product-categorie/hardware-applian...

> if a bit on the expensive side.

chokes on coffee

From my old-man, everything-is-stupidly-expensive point of view, this is my scale:

cheap side | reasonable | expensive side | Deciso boxes

Re: HomeLab #1: MikroTik as a Home Router

#44

Post by HackerThemAll »

Mikrotik is not a mere replacement for plug and play routers such as TP-Link and the like. It's a very advanced device offering countless networking features, including multiple VPN server options, advanced Layer 2/bridging/switching features - VLANs, nested VLANs (Q-in-Q), VXLAN, spanning tree protocols (STP, RSTP, MSTP), 802.1x authentication, bridge-based firewall and bridge-based NAT, data center bridging (a.k.a. "lossless Ethernet"). Advanced Layer 3 features such as BGP, policy routing, traffic shaping, VRRP, hardware layer 3 acceleration. Then containers, matter/thread protocols, mesh networking, advanced wi-fi features such as centrally-managed network (CAPSMAN), multiple/virtual access points, hotspots, and many many more. Advanced firewall for both IPv4 and IPv6. On top of that scripting, SSH server, NTP server, DNS cache. API client for advanced integrations, and built-in scheduler, packet sniffer for troubleshooting, safe mode for automatic rollbacks of recent changes in case when the admin gets cut off due to a dangerous change. It'd be really hard to enumerate all that RouterOS offers.

And all that is available from tiny home/SMB office devices starting at 40 USD, through dedicated wireless point to point bridges, to a big Ethernet switches/routers with 400G interfaces.

Of course it doesn't compete with high end NVIDIA Spectrum-X, Cisco or Juniper, but is good enough for 95% of networks.

It works great as a plug&play home/office router, too thanks to Quick Set, but for more sophisticated setups, a knowledge of networking protocols is mandatory. The more fancy setup, the more in-depth knowledge is required. Just like with programming and all stuff in life.

Re: HomeLab #1: MikroTik as a Home Router

#45

Post by ssl-3 »

SlavikCA wrote: post #22
bombcar wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It wasn’t terribly complicated for me but I seem to be built for the old Cisco style iOS. But with an LLM it’s easier than falling off a log and the command line means it can do everything easily.

The router probably should work without relying on LLM: I remember I misconfigured it, and can't really Google around or ask LLM to fix it, because my Internet is down now. Of course I can use Internet on my phone, but it's not really convenient setup to ask LLM to troubleshoot the router.

Yeah, it's inconvenient when the [effectively] black-box router device that only the bot understands goes out to lunch, and takes access to the bot along with it.

But the degree of inconvenience is up to the beholder.

One way is using something like ChatGPT with a pocket supercomputer. It's tedious to get technical stuff done that way, but it can be accomplished. (For those who haven't tried it, the bot can be spooky-good at correctly interpreting cell phone photos of technical text on a screen. This saves a ton of transcription effort.)

Another way is with the phone's hotspot and just about any random computer. Laptops have wifi. Wifi dongles for desktops can be stupid-cheap, and it's useful to have a few scattered around. It works fine (unless one's hotspot data is ridiculously-limited, I guess).

The best way is probably by being prepared with procedural fall-back methods. Keep backups of your configs, and keep the recovery instructions with them. Test recovery; an untested backup isn't necessarily better than having no backup at all. Keep as many historical versions as one wishes, and automate it because procrastination is part of the human condition.

After that: When the router's config gets stuffed up, then the backups and the restore instructions are right there. Just pick an appropriate backup and use it.

We should probably be keeping backups of important stuff like that even in the absence of LLMs. Humans also err, and stuff does break, and what seemed obvious six months ago when we were in the groove might be impossible to remember when we need it today.

Re: HomeLab #1: MikroTik as a Home Router

#46

Post by m463 »

znpy wrote: post #8
m463 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

on the other hand i got a mikrotik a while back and while setting it up it was silently phoning home. I installed openwrt and then installed it on many mikrotik routers over the years. to be honest, not so much traditional routers (wifi+4-5 ports) but on ~10 port mikrotik switches for my infra. i've since been switching to zyxel gs1900-* switches (up to 48 ports with openwrt)

> i've since been switching to zyxel gs1900-* switches (up to 48 ports with openwrt) I’m sorry what? You can run openwrt on that line of switches? I just have a 24-port one at home running stock firmware…

they have all kinds of stuff that runs openwrt

like:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0978TF8K3/

https://openwrt.org/toh/zyxel/gs1900-24hp_a1

or:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08TC3VJ61

https://openwrt.org/toh/hwdata/zyxel/zyxel_xgs1250-12_b1

Re: HomeLab #1: MikroTik as a Home Router

#47

Post by protocolture »

bombcar wrote: post #21
bdavbdav wrote: post #15

Frustratingly I couldn’t find a Mikrotik that would offer me a few SFPs, and a 2.5 or two. I wanted ideally just 3 SFPs - two WAN for LB / Failover and one up to switch. 2.5g WAN would do but would rather SFP for future use. UDM-SE it is for now.

What exactly did you need and how did https://mikrotik.com/product/crs305_1g_4s_in not do it? It says switch but it runs routerOS and can route at some speed - not 10G tho.

CRS is the switch product line and you would not believe how many professional network engineers do exactly as you have suggested and installed a CRS and asked why it locks up when routing.

Re: HomeLab #1: MikroTik as a Home Router

#48

Post by cassianoleal »

BLKNSLVR wrote: post #43
cassianoleal wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The opnSense Deciso boxes are very nice and open - if a bit on the expensive side. https://shop.opnsense.com/product-categorie/hardware-applian...

> if a bit on the expensive side. chokes on coffee From my old-man, everything-is-stupidly-expensive point of view, this is my scale: cheap side | reasonable | expensive side | Deciso boxes

I'm not disagreeing but they are quite powerful and fanless, with generous networking ports and both RAM and SSD can be upgraded.

I haven't been able to find many other devices that tick so many boxes. These seem to exist on a class of their own.

Re: HomeLab #1: MikroTik as a Home Router

#49

Post by msmagh »

luizfelberti wrote: post #32

I love MikroTik, but ffs just let me install something else on it. SONiC or any other Linux would be awesome. I love their hardware, but their software is absolutely awful. Is there any manufacturer out there who produces high quality hardware that is not locked down?

You can easily install openwrt on most of MikroTik routers. Rb5009 is also supported now if you need more powerful router.

https://openwrt.org/toh/mikrotik/rb5009ug_s_in

Re: HomeLab #1: MikroTik as a Home Router

#50

Post by walrus01 »

protocolture wrote: post #47
bombcar wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What exactly did you need and how did https://mikrotik.com/product/crs305_1g_4s_in not do it? It says switch but it runs routerOS and can route at some speed - not 10G tho.

CRS is the switch product line and you would not believe how many professional network engineers do exactly as you have suggested and installed a CRS and asked why it locks up when routing.

I really would question any "professional" network engineer that can't tell the difference between a switch and a router...

https://mikrotik.com/product/crs305_1g_4s_in

Each of the mikrotik switches even comes with a block diagram linked on its product page, showing for instance a single 1.3 Gbps between its L2 switch chip and its CPU.

https://cdn.mikrotik.com/web-assets/product_files/CRS305-1G-...

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