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Qwen 3.8

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Re: Qwen 3.8

#541

Post by nprateem »

hodgehog11 wrote: post #14

The "second only to Fable 5" comment is pretty telling here. I remember early on when a lot of naysayers were saying that Fable was barely an improvement on Opus. Like it or not, Anthropic have a genuine moat right now with that model, provided they continue to allow people to use it. It will be genuinely exciting when an open model is able to beat it.

Fable is still as dumb as a post. I ask it simple questions and it routinely gets things backwards, prioritises things that should be subordinate to others, etc.

An example: It just suggested that I shouldn't raise the price of my saas because it'd complicate the arithmetic if I did 0 -> $100k YT channel instead of sticking to $20 p/m.

It's just a complete moron, like all of them.

Re: Qwen 3.8

#542

Post by breezybottom »

throwaway-11-1 wrote: post #399
elmer2 wrote: post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Chinese government is so nice and giving. In fact, they have so much love in their hearts for the Uyghur people, they created a special mobile app for them, just to make sure nothing bad happens to them.

You do realize the US was fighting Uyghur terrorists alongside China 20 years ago in ago in Pakistan’s and Afghanistan for their support and cooperation with Al Queda? Like I know everyone is supposed to hate China now or whatever but can you guys show a little consistency?

The only way that's an inconsistency is if you think all Uyghurs are terrorists.

Re: Qwen 3.8

#543

Post by manmal »

monster_truck wrote: post #401
vitorgrs wrote: post #68

Deepseek 4 "final" version is imminent as well. Will probably be at Opus 4.8 level, and I find it pretty big deal because of Deepseek price...

It's the one I am most excited for. Over the past few weeks while using pro from them directly I have had an increasing number of responses that are obviously from a much, much better model. It is so good that the closed model dog and pony show is already spinning fud about "dark routing" and "stolen directly from fable" Even at their new pricing it is a genuinely ridiculous amount of value. If you are the type of pe…

It would take longer to train on intercepted Fable data, no?

Re: Qwen 3.8

#544

Post by Bnjoroge »

bwfan123 wrote: post #306
XCSme wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

DeepSeek V4 pricing is insane, 10x-30x cheaper to use than most other models, and it usually is good enough for most tasks.

> it usually is good enough for most tasks The model is fantastic. And costs almost nothing. The only problem I see is that they will train on your data. There are zero-data-retention providers of DeepSeek models, of which I have used openrouter (with zdr guardrails), and fireworks. But these are 3x to 5x more expensive than directly using DeepSeek, possibly due to poor caching. Thats the price to pay for zdr.

I use these guys. https://crof.ai/tos. Their prices match deepseek, pretty dang fast, and support ZDR. Maybe they serve quantized models but I havent seen a drop in quality from my evals using them vs Deepseek or even for other models.

Re: Qwen 3.8

#545

Post by Bnjoroge »

throwa356262 wrote: post #134
paweladamczuk wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Check cache hits in your logs. You can use Openrouter or pi config to pin providers with best cache hit rates (or disable ones with the worst). I use Openrouter for everything except Deepseek. For Deepseek I use their API directly.

There is a 3rd party harness specifically tuned for deepseek (reasonix). Have you tried that?

what exactly do they do to "tune" it? It's not Deepseek's official harness, and going direct with deepseek using ur own harness is stupid cheap

Re: Qwen 3.8

#546

Post by whstl »

taosx wrote: post #462
dofm wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I got into a bit of an argument a while back when I used the word "crass" to describe some of the code decisions I've seen Claude make (in someone else's project that I have to work with). But it is how I feel and it feels like the right word for the job. Because as you say, good code projects start out with good decisions. It's like when you see a CAD design with a sequence of features that exist only to fix problem…

Exactly, and even when humans make bad decisions there is some friction, I feel that llm's don't have/notice that friction, they just bulldoze without caring about anything else.

Yeah. IME, LLMs actually introduces a lot of friction when you want to improve the design. They are 100% biased towards the status quo.

Re: Qwen 3.8

#547

Post by formvoltron »

simonw wrote: post #525

(I can't draw a pelican for this one because Alibaba Cloud have flagged my email address and won't let me pay them for access. So I'm waiting for the open weights release, or for the new model to show up on OpenRouter.)

AI rabble-rouser!

Re: Qwen 3.8

#548

Post by hodgehog11 »

InsideOutSanta wrote: post #40
hodgehog11 wrote: post #14

The "second only to Fable 5" comment is pretty telling here. I remember early on when a lot of naysayers were saying that Fable was barely an improvement on Opus. Like it or not, Anthropic have a genuine moat right now with that model, provided they continue to allow people to use it. It will be genuinely exciting when an open model is able to beat it.

I wouldn't call it a moat, but I would call it a noticeably better model. Subjectively, for my own work, I would rate the top models Fable > K3 > Sol. But it's not like Fable is so substantially better than the other two that I would be seriously impacted if I didn't have access to it anymore. All three are amazing models, and of the three, Fable is the only one that regularly triggers refusals.

It really does depend on your application. In my domain (math research), it is substantially better. Fable can solve really hard tasks with surprising consistency. It makes mistakes, and occasionally refuses, but honestly, at the top level, ideas are the currency and the rigor is the busywork. The other models cannot come close in this domain.

If you couple Fable's idea factory with Sol's rigor, you get a real game-changer. It puts the emphasis on top-level ideas, and nearly trivialises the intermediate layers.

Re: Qwen 3.8

#549

Post by formvoltron »

gardnr wrote: post #6
adrian_b wrote: post #4

I assume that this announcement has been prompted by that of Moonshot AI, which has just announced a 2.8T parameter open-weights LLM, Kimi K3, to be published on Huggingface by 27 July. Now the response of Alibaba is that they will also publish soon a big open weights LLM, the 2.4T parameter Qwen 3.8. I wonder if Alibaba has always planned to make this big LLM open weights, or they have chosen to do this now, to bett…

It's hard to say what their motivation is. The Chinese firms seem to be working hard to commoditize intelligence which may be the most effective way to debase American frontier labs. And yeah: it also happens to be really good for humanity.

US firms can replace US workers with chinese AI. I'm not complaining.. but it sure is an odd situation.

Re: Qwen 3.8

#550

Post by throwdbaaway »

conradev wrote: post #315
adrian_b wrote: post #4

I assume that this announcement has been prompted by that of Moonshot AI, which has just announced a 2.8T parameter open-weights LLM, Kimi K3, to be published on Huggingface by 27 July. Now the response of Alibaba is that they will also publish soon a big open weights LLM, the 2.4T parameter Qwen 3.8. I wonder if Alibaba has always planned to make this big LLM open weights, or they have chosen to do this now, to bett…

On social media in China there is an oft-repeated joke that goes something like this: In other countries, governments intervene to prevent anti-competitive behaviour; here (in China), they intervene to curb competition. https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/what-i...

I suspect this is why DeepSeek had to introduce the 2x peak hours pricing. The price would be too low otherwise.
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