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Qwen 3.8

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Re: Qwen 3.8

#531

Post by samxli »

simonw wrote: post #525

(I can't draw a pelican for this one because Alibaba Cloud have flagged my email address and won't let me pay them for access. So I'm waiting for the open weights release, or for the new model to show up on OpenRouter.)

lol the pelican benchmark is basically the only review process I trust at this point. kinda wild that alibaba of all companies is making it hard to give them money tho, you'd think they'd want prominent devs testing their stuff.

openrouter usually picks these up pretty fast, hopefully it shows up there soon. You can also just download the qwen app and do this in the chat interface using their MCP tools for local dev.

Re: Qwen 3.8

#532

Post by gf000 »

mullingitover wrote: post #422
freehorse wrote: post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Industrial espionage is neither a chinese invention nor (specifically) chinese practice. American companies do it to each other even.

The U.S. was openly a pirate nation for most of the 1800s. Like with the ICC, the US respects or doesn’t respect international law strictly when it’s beneficial to the state’s interests. China really can’t be held to a different standard. This activity is grade school level geopolitics: the global system of government is anarchy.

Yeah, I love how people assume large powers have to do something. They are at most expected to do certain reasonable stuff (most of the time, a war is not beneficial to anyone so they try not to escalate that far), but there is not really global "law enforcement".

Re: Qwen 3.8

#533

Post by culi »

culi wrote: post #446
adrian_b wrote: post #4

I assume that this announcement has been prompted by that of Moonshot AI, which has just announced a 2.8T parameter open-weights LLM, Kimi K3, to be published on Huggingface by 27 July. Now the response of Alibaba is that they will also publish soon a big open weights LLM, the 2.4T parameter Qwen 3.8. I wonder if Alibaba has always planned to make this big LLM open weights, or they have chosen to do this now, to bett…

It's being announced right now because the World AI Conference is ongoing. Robots are boxing and major Chinese AI firms are releasing their newest models. Also the formation of WAICO was just announced by Xi Jinping https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Artificial_Intelligence_...

Both Qwen 3.8 and the latest Kimi release were announced at this conference

Re: Qwen 3.8

#534

Post by ai_fry_ur_brain »

gardnr wrote: post #6
adrian_b wrote: post #4

I assume that this announcement has been prompted by that of Moonshot AI, which has just announced a 2.8T parameter open-weights LLM, Kimi K3, to be published on Huggingface by 27 July. Now the response of Alibaba is that they will also publish soon a big open weights LLM, the 2.4T parameter Qwen 3.8. I wonder if Alibaba has always planned to make this big LLM open weights, or they have chosen to do this now, to bett…

It's hard to say what their motivation is. The Chinese firms seem to be working hard to commoditize intelligence which may be the most effective way to debase American frontier labs. And yeah: it also happens to be really good for humanity.

[dead]

Re: Qwen 3.8

#535

Post by behnamoh »

seizethecheese wrote: post #488
kelnos wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's hard to say what their motivation is. Feels pretty easy to me. They want to turn LLMs into a commodity, and watch the US AI labs crash and burn. There will still be plenty of customers who will pay them to host the models and run inference, even if the weights are open and others can offer competing products. (If necessary, the Chinese government can ban use of foreign inference services by Chinese citizens an…

There’s a simpler explanation, which is that this is how Chinese business operates. When I was in China earlier this year the big topic of conversation was “overproduction”. The big example was electric cars, where there were too many companies making too many cars and making revenue but no profit. It was explained to me that generally Chinese firms will compete hard and maximize revenue above all, whereas western fi…

> It was explained to me that generally Chinese firms will compete hard and maximize revenue above all, whereas western firms tend to focus on profit.

ok but why?

Re: Qwen 3.8

#536

Post by Grombobulous »

KerrAvon wrote: post #507
Grombobulous wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think most of us that will claim to understand China are going to end up being wrong, unless any of us live there or grow up there. There’s a saying about China I have heard from ex-pats: the more you know about China, the less you know about China. The point of me bringing that up is to say that what follows is really just my best guess: If I were to judge from China’s approach to hardware, I think that the compan…

>The real reason we are using Claude is for the SaaS aspect of it. It has a toolchain, a friendly interface, and a bunch of integrations with business applications. That is a very thin moat, though. There's nothing you can do with, for example, Claude Code + Opus 4.8 that you can't do with your own custom harness running API-level Opus 4.8, which means that if you can afford the hardware (the moat for running any SOT…

You might be right that it’s thin, but it seems like a big reason why OpenAI has been bleeding enterprise marketshare to Anthropic lately.

Re: Qwen 3.8

#537

Post by jimbob45 »

ycui7 wrote: post #512
jimbob45 wrote: post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn’t open though. Promises to be open later aren’t worth anything, given what we’ve seen and heard from AI execs making promises in this industry.

it takes extra effort to open source a model even if you had it running internally. even traditional software takes extra effort to get released as open source.

I’m sympathetic but AI claims are to be disbelieved until proven anymore. That’s a well poisoned thoroughly by not just American companies.

Re: Qwen 3.8

#538

Post by ahknight »

simonw wrote: post #525

(I can't draw a pelican for this one because Alibaba Cloud have flagged my email address and won't let me pay them for access. So I'm waiting for the open weights release, or for the new model to show up on OpenRouter.)

Did you know you can create more than one email address?

Re: Qwen 3.8

#539

Post by fhn »

asdewqqwer wrote: post #410
edm0nd wrote: post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah the Chinese totally have a really good history with being completely open and giving lol. The Chinese government totally has not been hacking into American and Western fortune 500 companies for the past few decades stealing R&D and tech to use for themselves. The Chinese also totally do not steal hundreds of billions of dollars of IP from America annually. Totally not something they would do!

It is hilarious to see people from arguable the most polarized political systems in the world believing the evil 1.5 billion people across the sea share one single mind, either a saint, or a devil.

when the CCP controls media, news, corporations, they basically control the minds of their people. How do you suppose the Wuhan virus got so out of control? You mean to tell me anybody in China can say bad words about the government and their leaders, bookstore owners/employees are not getting arrested for selling books, students are not getting arrested for sharing their opinions, women are not forced abortions and sterilizations for the one child policy?

Re: Qwen 3.8

#540

Post by subarctic »

ahtihn wrote: post #365
fidotron wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The big decelerationist threat is a sudden reduction in competition. If either OpenAI or Anthropic drop out or the open weights stuff is banned/becomes uncompetitive then the motivation and tolerance for taking risks with the larger training runs tanks. The closest we've seen to this in tech in recent decades was iOS vs Android, where Android only really was competitive for a very short window of time (approx 4.x) an…

> Android only really was competitive for a very short window of time Complete non-sense. iOS and Android are equivalent. Users do not chose Android or iOS because one or the other is better. It's just brand loyalty, status signalling and ecosystem lock-in that creates enough friction that people don't bother.

I agree, I'm on ios now and that's not because it's "better", it's because of everyone else that has an iphone
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