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Painting the sides of railroad rails white to reduce derailment

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Re: Painting the sides of railroad rails white to reduce derailment

#91

Post by moi2388 »

OptionOfT wrote: post #83
gattilorenz wrote: post #81

According to the Dutch railway maintainer, it's not needed there, and the effect is not really proven: https://www.prorail.nl/veelgestelde-vragen/zomer/waarom-zijn... Same for the Swiss, according to the natioanl railway company the results of their tests were “inconclusive”, but other operators of the Swiss network say that it depends on the exposure and other factors (but the challenge is keeping them clean, in a w…

Sorry, but both Switserland and definitly the Netherlands are further North vs a significant percentage of the USA. Bern, Switzerland is very close to the same latitude as Quebec City, CA or Fargo, ND, USA. The Netherlands is even further North. Due to the lower angle of the sun hitting them they might get completely different results vs here in the South-Western USA. Also weird in the article: > Het aanbrengen is be…

Because there is a lot of rail. And it requires inspection.

Re: Painting the sides of railroad rails white to reduce derailment

#92

Post by NetMageSCW »

throw1234567891 wrote: post #78
Dah00n wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't a new thing in the Tour and it is normally not a problem, but since someone crashed on it then it must be the "white shit" that caused it. Not one of the hundreds of other variables - like the rider.

Paint is usually slippery. There are special standards for how slippery a paint painted on the tarmac can be. But it’s calculated for cars, not racing bicycles with teeny-weeny tires. Could have been easily the paint.

Perhaps they should have used some type of traction paint.

Re: Painting the sides of railroad rails white to reduce derailment

#93

Post by DaiPlusPlus »

mark-r wrote: post #77
DaiPlusPlus wrote: post #42

> “When people first saw it, they said, ‘Why haven’t we been doing this for a hundred years?’” Doerr said. “That’s the kind of question I love to hear, because it means the culture of safety innovation is alive and well.” Union Pacific haven’t been doing this precisely because they don’t have a culture of innovation…

The question applies more broadly than Union Pacific. Why hasn't this been an industry standard for 100 years?

> Why hasn't this been an industry standard for 100 years?

Because the US heavy rail system is a duopoly with no incentive to innovate.

Re: Painting the sides of railroad rails white to reduce derailment

#94

Post by throw1234567891 »

NetMageSCW wrote: post #92
throw1234567891 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Paint is usually slippery. There are special standards for how slippery a paint painted on the tarmac can be. But it’s calculated for cars, not racing bicycles with teeny-weeny tires. Could have been easily the paint.

Perhaps they should have used some type of traction paint.

There are other problems with that in wet conditions.

Re: Painting the sides of railroad rails white to reduce derailment

#95

Post by subscribed »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #39
atourgates wrote: post #3

In a somewhat related practice, some roads in the Tour de France this year have been painted with "white shit" (rider Tom Pidcock's words) in order to combat the asphalt melting in the heat, with the unfortunate side-effect that it seems to be slippery and several riders (including Tom Pidcock) crashed going around a corner when the lost traction. Coverage here: https://velo.outsideonline.com/road/road-racing/tour-de…

> But of course, this was done in response to past serious crashes that occurred because the asphalt melted. So, it's sort of a damned if you do damned if you don't scenario for the organizers. Well, not entirely. You always have the option of repaving the roads with cobblestone or something.

Cobblestones?

They're very slippery when dirty or wet. Seems like a much worse option.

Re: Painting the sides of railroad rails white to reduce derailment

#96

Post by foxglacier »

conorcleary wrote: post #64
foxglacier wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that's backwards. I took it to mean the rails or the engineers are no longer fighting (coping with) heat input from the sun because the rail never receives that heat when it's reflected away by the paint.

It means the paint is fighting the energy conversion potential encroaching on the steel, in place of the steel fighting it with no covering or shield

I know what it means. "you're not fighting the sun's heat" means "the paint is fighting the sun's heat" but that's no explanation of how it could mean that. I say it's backwards because clearly whatever's doing the fighting is not the paint because it has the opposite effect. It must be the steel, as you say, or the people struggling with the problem.

Re: Painting the sides of railroad rails white to reduce derailment

#97

Post by atourgates »

Dah00n wrote: post #57
atourgates wrote: post #3

In a somewhat related practice, some roads in the Tour de France this year have been painted with "white shit" (rider Tom Pidcock's words) in order to combat the asphalt melting in the heat, with the unfortunate side-effect that it seems to be slippery and several riders (including Tom Pidcock) crashed going around a corner when the lost traction. Coverage here: https://velo.outsideonline.com/road/road-racing/tour-de…

This isn't a new thing in the Tour and it is normally not a problem, but since someone crashed on it then it must be the "white shit" that caused it. Not one of the hundreds of other variables - like the rider.

Several riders independently crashed in the exact same spot, including Pidcock who is a famously good descender.

These are literally world class professionals at riding their bikes downhill around corners without crashing. If they say the white shit caused the roads to behave differently than they expected, I'm going to believe them.

Re: Painting the sides of railroad rails white to reduce derailment

#98

Post by atourgates »

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #88
atourgates wrote: post #3

In a somewhat related practice, some roads in the Tour de France this year have been painted with "white shit" (rider Tom Pidcock's words) in order to combat the asphalt melting in the heat, with the unfortunate side-effect that it seems to be slippery and several riders (including Tom Pidcock) crashed going around a corner when the lost traction. Coverage here: https://velo.outsideonline.com/road/road-racing/tour-de…

...I know absolutely nothing about competitive cycling, but it occurs to me: 1. Would the Tour de France have been rescheduled if it was raining that day? 2. If the answer to #1 is no, is the paint any more slippery than water would have been? 3. If the answer to #1 is yes, then they should also reschedule for extreme heat.

1. No, they ride in the rain all the time.

2. It's not so much that the white shit (actually lime) is slippery, it's that it's unexpectedly slippery. Riders are generally quite good at going the right speed for the conditions. This just a new and unexpected condition they don't have experience with yet.

3. They did shorten one stage because of extreme heat, and there has been talk about rescheduling (both in terms of season, and moving the races into cooler parts fo the day), but the Tour is pretty tradition bound, so it'd take something quite exceptional to see that happen.

Re: Painting the sides of railroad rails white to reduce derailment

#99

Post by HappMacDonald »

brookst wrote: post #71
anonymars wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why couldn't this also help with continuous-welded rail? Your own video points out that it's still prone to trade-offs: rail breaks in the cold are better than buckling in the heat, but what if you could reduce the high point with white paint so you could expand the practical temperature range?

Or paint that turns black at low temp and white at higher temp?

This is what I want on my house and my car

Re: Painting the sides of railroad rails white to reduce derailment

#100

Post by Breza »

jordanb wrote: post #20
Animats wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pepe's Towing in Los Angeles reports asphalt collapses where loaded semitrailers are parked with the landing gear down. On hot days the concentrated load of the landing gear sometimes punches through the asphalt.[1] This is why truck dock areas are usually paved with concrete. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBrULmCGJfc

Years ago Chicago started putting concrete pads on the road at bus stops because the busses stopping in the exact same spot repeatedly was carving ruts into the asphalt.

I've lived in Washington DC for 20 years and I never realized why the bus stops here are concrete! Thank you for this.
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