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Minecraft: Java Edition now uses SDL3

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Re: Minecraft: Java Edition now uses SDL3

#161

Post by nkrisc »

repeekad wrote: post #60
mort96 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Delay a release? Sure. But delay a snapshot? Why? By releasing the snapshot in this state, they learn both 1) how big of a problem those known issues are (how often does entering exclusive fullscreen crash the game on Windows? They presumably have telemetry for this), and 2) if there are other, as of yet unknown issues they need to fix before release. The earlier you learn these things, the better. There hasn't ever…

Are snapshots explicitly a beta channel? Or do users get auto updates to them? Testing for bugs in prod shouldn’t be acceptable unless users expect bugs in exchange for getting latest features early in something like a beta channel

Minecraft snapshots are beta. A default installation of the Minecraft launcher will not download and install snapshots.

You have to opt-in to it.

Re: Minecraft: Java Edition now uses SDL3

#162

Post by nkrisc »

pfg_ wrote: post #151
creatonez wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are explicitly a beta channel, and in fact if you create a world on a snapshot you don't have an upgrade path to future releases (unless you start hacking at your world files with an NBT editor). So most of the community ignores them and waits till release.

Snapshots do let you upgrade worlds to future releases and you don't need to do any NBT editing, just upgrade the game and load the world.

Though there are of course no guarantees there won’t be problems with the world.

Re: Minecraft: Java Edition now uses SDL3

#163

Post by Night_Thastus »

pjmlp wrote: post #69
Night_Thastus wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It did used to be required. Older Java versions performed pretty terrible. However, Java 17+ completely fixed that. Even the heaviest modded setups run buttery smooth, even on older versions which are not well optimized.

It was more like Minecraft code was horrible, than anything else. Creating objects like crazy, range for in hot paths, not caring about data representation, chosen algorithms,.... JIT and GC were already doing heroic efforts. Yet, it settled Notch for life, which is something to take into account in the usual question regarding which technical stack for games.

Minecraft 1.7.10, covered in mods, can run fantastic (300+ FPS) if Java 25 is used. That used to be impossible.

Re: Minecraft: Java Edition now uses SDL3

#164

Post by LoganDark »

Grombobulous wrote: post #136
LoganDark wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I highly doubt that macOS fullscreen has that much higher latency than Windows fullscreen. The latency is so fine that I play Windows games over a capture card using OBS as the monitor. (The Mac has a 120Hz display though.) I like to play games like ARC Raiders using that setup. Works perfectly fine. Sure it sucks that I need Windows at all for it, but SteamOS isn't an option yet due to my 3090

I’m not talking about the latency, more of the interface surrounding it and the overall feel of it. It’s kind of hard to describe what I dislike about it. I’m not really a fan of the way it’s a three finger swipe sideways to leave and enter the full screen either. I’m pretty sure I have had at some point issues where putting my cursor at the top of the window erroneously shows the menu bar within certain types of gam…

What you're describing is Spaces which is macOS's multi-desktop system. I agree it's annoying to have to tolerate a glacial animation just to switch between apps when they happen to be fullscreen. It's not a deal-breaker for me, but it's definitely near the top of my list of annoying things about macOS. But fullscreen applications are on the same level as additional desktops, basically. My personal solution is just to get good at swiping quickly but there is also now an app that simulates the trackpad gesture well enough to get instant switching.

The menu bar is supposed to appear with the cursor at the top of the screen. I have also encountered issues where it doesn't properly hide until you bring your cursor back in order to take the cursor away again and then it hides. It's a quirk but I sort of understand why it happens and it's just a small glitch to me.

Re: Minecraft: Java Edition now uses SDL3

#165

Post by LoganDark »

reilly3000 wrote: post #146
gavmor wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure it already can with the right mod/plugin.

I’m delighted to get to introduce you to ComputerCraft: Tweaked (modern fork). https://tweaked.cc/ Email client and server in Lua https://github.com/GabrielleAkers/cc-email The whole project is a great way to get started with understanding computers, programming, and networking in an environment that appeals to the iPad generation- one that knows less about technology than its predecessors. It’s about making computer…

Oh hey, I did a lot of ComputerCraft back in the day. Don't forget OpenComputers, which was much different flavor of challenge but also quite interesting.

Re: Minecraft: Java Edition now uses SDL3

#166

Post by Grombobulous »

LoganDark wrote: post #164
Grombobulous wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not talking about the latency, more of the interface surrounding it and the overall feel of it. It’s kind of hard to describe what I dislike about it. I’m not really a fan of the way it’s a three finger swipe sideways to leave and enter the full screen either. I’m pretty sure I have had at some point issues where putting my cursor at the top of the window erroneously shows the menu bar within certain types of gam…

What you're describing is Spaces which is macOS's multi-desktop system. I agree it's annoying to have to tolerate a glacial animation just to switch between apps when they happen to be fullscreen. It's not a deal-breaker for me, but it's definitely near the top of my list of annoying things about macOS. But fullscreen applications are on the same level as additional desktops, basically. My personal solution is just t…

Perhaps I was playing an RTS or city builder game or something along those lines and experienced that problem with the menu bar, and maybe if that did happen the developer could have prevented it with a better port.

Re: Minecraft: Java Edition now uses SDL3

#167

Post by NelsonMinar »

toxik wrote: post #95
LelouBil wrote: post #55

It's really amazing how much Minecraft is becoming more and more a game engine on it's own rather than just a game.

Soon enough it'll read email [_] _ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamie_Zawinski#Zawinski%27s_La...

One of my favorite easter eggs in Nethack was the way a Mailer Daemon would arrive in-game and deliver a scroll when you received an email on the host Unix system. Which then became a game exploit because there were some obscure in-game uses for the scroll items.

Re: Minecraft: Java Edition now uses SDL3

#168

Post by bl4ckneon »

yoz wrote: post #158
AkBKukU wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Minecraft comes in two flavors, Java and Bedrock. All of the mobile, console ports, and windows store versions are based on bedrock. Java is the one you download directly from the website. Bedrock isn't really about custom hosted servers, but there is a way. You can run a standard Java Minecraft server however you like, and then you can wrap it to also work with the Bedrock using Gyser[1] which will protocol translat…

Apologies for hijacking an advice thread, but I'm another dad who's had to deal with this incompatibility nightmare, and I really really want to know what the hell happened within Microsoft & Mojang to end up with this mess. No, seriously, I'm fascinated by the story. It's been over ten years . I'm happy to assume that most of the people involved are smart and good with decent intentions. I also bet there were many k…

No insider knowledge but as far as I know, bedrock is written C++ not Java. They did that for porting to other devices and consoles, as well as preformance. It also allows them to sell skins, server hosting, more micro transactions since it's more locked down. So I think it's just a thing that happened, and it has been going on for a while and if they did anything to either the Java edition or the bedrock edition then it would make a lot of people really mad.

Re: Minecraft: Java Edition now uses SDL3

#169

Post by Quekid5 »

cogman10 wrote: post #64
Night_Thastus wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It did used to be required. Older Java versions performed pretty terrible. However, Java 17+ completely fixed that. Even the heaviest modded setups run buttery smooth, even on older versions which are not well optimized.

It really wasn't and was always dubious. A lot of the advice, for example, suggested using CMS. Which has been a terrible garbage collector almost since it was added to the JVM. When G1GC landed in 8, that was the correct GC to select for minecraft. Even the parallel collector would have been a better option than CMS in a lot of cases (sub 4gb heaps). It was placebo. People wanted there to be SOMETHING that made thin…

Yep, once people discover the multitude of JVM flags the cargo culting begins...

It really applies to anything with a huge number of options, I remember similar things from back when I used Gentoo and the wild suggestions I'd get for what exact CC/C++ compiler options to use...

Re: Minecraft: Java Edition now uses SDL3

#170

Post by cogman10 »

acpdev wrote: post #157
cogman10 wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends on the GC, with ZGC no. Particularly if you enable generational mode. For other GCs like G1 and the parallel collector, when new gen is filled up the GC pauses the application in order to run a minor collection. For G1, major collections are ran in the background until the heap fully fills up. When that happens, the GC triggers stop the world GC. A smaller heap size would cause those pauses to be more freq…

I don’t believe this is exactly how g1 works. - It is divided into by default 2048 regions so it will be setting region size to 4mb means with an 8gb heap, and that you’ll get an inefficient collection once you have a 2mb+ object to deal with. So there is a value to setting a bigger heap size to get a bigger region size. The max is 32mb region size then after that iirc the region count bumps. https://docs.oracle.com/…

> I don’t believe this is exactly how g1 works.

Everything you've posted is accurate but I also don't believe it contradicts what I said. I certainly simplified and I'm not suggesting G1 is a bad GC, it's one that we often use. I just think ZGC is better for the job of a game server.

G1 is an excellent GC if your application can tolerate periodic 50ms latency spikes (most applications can). My argument is that specifically for a game server, ZGC is better. That's because game servers typically have more than enough CPU horse power and added latency is detrimental to the experience. So trading off more CPU usage due to GC is a worthy tradeoff vs the added latency spikes.

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