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Qwen 3.8

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Re: Qwen 3.8

#411

Post by applicative »

oceanplexian wrote: post #307
gardnr wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's hard to say what their motivation is. The Chinese firms seem to be working hard to commoditize intelligence which may be the most effective way to debase American frontier labs. And yeah: it also happens to be really good for humanity.

> It's hard to say what their motivation is. Not for anyone who reads history. Back in the late 18th century, England was the world's top economy, in big part due to its textile industry. England had an export ban on the technology, but textile worker named Samuel Slater brought blueprints over (Supposedly in response to a bounty posted in a newspaper by the US government!). The technology diffused rapidly because th…

The US under e.g Hamilton opposed all trade secrets in principle on Englightment grounds, and thus did not protect its own.

By contrast, export of protected Chinese tech today frequently gets the death penalty.

Re: Qwen 3.8

#412

Post by theabhinavdas »

adrian_b wrote: post #4

I assume that this announcement has been prompted by that of Moonshot AI, which has just announced a 2.8T parameter open-weights LLM, Kimi K3, to be published on Huggingface by 27 July. Now the response of Alibaba is that they will also publish soon a big open weights LLM, the 2.4T parameter Qwen 3.8. I wonder if Alibaba has always planned to make this big LLM open weights, or they have chosen to do this now, to bett…

And the Kimi release was probably prompted by the Inkling announcement. Excited for Chinese labs to copy those capabilities over as well!

Re: Qwen 3.8

#413

Post by chews »

TheDong wrote: post #335
kelnos wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's hard to say what their motivation is. Feels pretty easy to me. They want to turn LLMs into a commodity, and watch the US AI labs crash and burn. There will still be plenty of customers who will pay them to host the models and run inference, even if the weights are open and others can offer competing products. (If necessary, the Chinese government can ban use of foreign inference services by Chinese citizens an…

I feel like there could also be a simpler explanation. Why does a debian contributor make debian free, why do they work on this thing anyone can use? Is it because linux and debian hate windows and iOS and want to see american fail? No, it's because most debian contributors believe software source code, information, should be free, users should be free to modify the code they use, and that they're building a thing th…

Deepseek spun out of a hedgefund that took a huge short position on Nvidia. China is actively looking to switch to chips made by huawai and ween themselves off of the difficulty of sourcing nvidia.

Re: Qwen 3.8

#414

Post by gosub100 »

gardnr wrote: post #6
adrian_b wrote: post #4

I assume that this announcement has been prompted by that of Moonshot AI, which has just announced a 2.8T parameter open-weights LLM, Kimi K3, to be published on Huggingface by 27 July. Now the response of Alibaba is that they will also publish soon a big open weights LLM, the 2.4T parameter Qwen 3.8. I wonder if Alibaba has always planned to make this big LLM open weights, or they have chosen to do this now, to bett…

It's hard to say what their motivation is. The Chinese firms seem to be working hard to commoditize intelligence which may be the most effective way to debase American frontier labs. And yeah: it also happens to be really good for humanity.

Think of those poor billionaires, I feel terrible for their awful plight!

Re: Qwen 3.8

#415

Post by Elzair »

Has there been any news on open weighting Qwen Image 2.0 and WAN?

We are spoiled in the LLM segment, but I would love to see an open source competitor to Flux.2, etc.

Re: Qwen 3.8

#416

Post by vrganj »

elmer2 wrote: post #389
vrganj wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US leadership (both government and industry) really seems set on making everyone go with the Chinese competition at this point.

Really? I use claude regularly, and the Chinese models are far behind and feel like a cheap copy. It's Linux on the desktop all over again. Next year will be its time.

Your entire account seems to have a strong agenda in portraying this message.

But yes, as a European, the US hasn't exactly been making friends over here.

Re: Qwen 3.8

#417

Post by asdewqqwer »

elmer2 wrote: post #385
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alibaba isn’t really the Chinese government though, or are you saying Americans will think that ever since Jack Ma was harmonized?

Any large company in China is only allowed to get this way by direct control from the CCP. This isn't really anything nee and I thought it was common knowledge by now.

I thought it should always be common knowledge that there is no way for any organization of 100m people to have one single mind.

Re: Qwen 3.8

#418

Post by inigyou »

kid64 wrote: post #381
inigyou wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only one of them lets you install unapproved apps.

For now

everything is for now. If you refuse choices because they'll go to shit in the future, then you must refuse all choices.

Re: Qwen 3.8

#419

Post by kettlecorn »

kzrdude wrote: post #323
gardnr wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's hard to say what their motivation is. The Chinese firms seem to be working hard to commoditize intelligence which may be the most effective way to debase American frontier labs. And yeah: it also happens to be really good for humanity.

Fwiw, American industry has given away a lot for free - you could include large parts of the open source movement in that - and all the "free" VC backed services like facebook would be another prong of the same comparison. I would rather compare this way, that China is gaining soft power and goodwill, in the technology and innovation sense, in a way that's similar to how USA has done in the past.

Yes it's only relatively recently that US politics has taken a turn towards being more defensive and protectionist.

The tech industry along with US foreign policy has become much more zero-sum in its ideology in recent years, and I think that's a tremendous mistake.

Re: Qwen 3.8

#420

Post by sunaookami »

chewz wrote: post #184
porksoda wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My experience was so much different to this, that I have the unfortunate impression that you're shilling. It really was not a capable model, it felt like the old oai models back when we were all excited but couldn't actually trust them even in the littlest ways. What harness were you using, did you do any work to make it better? What was I doing wrong? I just pointed opencode at it, with a pretty simple (large-ish) d…

Have you actually used Opus 4.8 in Claude Code? It takes way too long to do any practical task on higher thinking levels due to over-engineering. And I am not the only one complaining. Lots of people downgrade to Opus 4.6 exactly for this reason. Opus 4.8 training works well for agentic work. Not for code harness. EDIT: ``` stronger on coding and raw capability but can be more argumentative, verbose, and costly. Reli…

Reddit is the absolute worst way to find real experience. Opus 4.8 is a very capable model and no chinese model can outdo it.
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