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Is this the end of the once-mighty GoPro?

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Re: Is this the end of the once-mighty GoPro?

#521

Post by ghtbircshotbe »

recursivecaveat wrote: post #225

Extremely similar to iRobot (Roomba). They both practically genericized themselves by inventing and dominating the product category, then just couldn't keep up with the competition. GoPro does feel more self inflicted though. Their drone was a failure, and they burnt a lot of money trying to do some kind of pivot to being a media company.

It sounds similar to a lot of US products. They outsource all production to China, then China essentially start making copies of their products and charging a fraction of the price.

Re: Is this the end of the once-mighty GoPro?

#522

Post by Grombobulous »

SoftTalker wrote: post #236
Grombobulous wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of what you’re saying is essentially not relevant, because even the enshittified brands are still designing and manufacturing/performing final assembly in Western countries. Not their entire product lineups, but still a good chunk of them, especially for heavier and physically larger appliances. Your future speed queen might be just as American as if you had bought a cheap GE. I don’t know where it’s made (prob…

This puts no value on the costs that unreliable and poorly built appliances add to your life. A dead toaster is a minor inconvenience. You can go without toast for quite a while. and a toaster can be replaced at any department store. You can carry it home and plug it in. Or order one online and have it at your door the next day. They are cheap enough and unimportant enough that there's no real downside to making pric…

What you’re saying makes sense. Obviously changing out appliances is a big hassle.

I would also say that a whole lot of people really either can’t afford to drop $2k on a washing machine or would much rather spend that elsewhere, inconvenience notwithstanding.

At the toaster level, at least in my case the cheap toaster isn’t a daily annoyance, the only annoyance is that it broke. In the modern day that means a replacement arrives at my door in less than 24 hours.

It is a bit dystopian/Cyberpunk-ish, yes. We aren’t getting the Star Trek vision of the future unfortunately. We can see how both corporate incentives and market preferences have spoken.

Re: Is this the end of the once-mighty GoPro?

#523

Post by Grombobulous »

tomaskafka wrote: post #262
Grombobulous wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A whole bunch of American and Western multinational companies design hardware in Western countries and manufacture them in China. The manufacturing isn’t usually the most valuable part of the value chain. E.g., Apple makes the most money when you sell you an iPhone, not their Chinese and Indian factory suppliers and assemblers. GoPro isn’t failing because they’re an American brand. They’re failing because they’re mis…

That’s a great list of targets to kill. Things like Vitamix should get undercut by 300 % with same or better quality.

Some of them are expensive luxury items like Vitamix but a whole lot of cheap appliances that compete with overseas brands are made in the US.

When you have an item that is big and heavy to ship, it doesn’t primarily involve electronics fabrication work, labor time per item is relatively low, and you build it in Tennessee/Alabama, making it in the US isn’t really a cost problem.

Re: Is this the end of the once-mighty GoPro?

#524

Post by justinclift »

lyu07282 wrote: post #351
tejtm wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not as though other countries could not choose do the same. It seem to me that China choosing to subsidize industry it is not so different than the US choosing to subsidize Roads, Autos and OIL. In both cases it does seem to work splendidly as intended. Other than political inertia (or economic reasons far beyond my ability to fathom) there is nothing to stop the US from following suit. I accept "free market" i…

I think the overwhelming and undeniable success and prosperity of China is the biggest concern to the west, the neoliberals consistently predicted their immediate downfall that never came. Except we are all still led by the same neoliberals proven wrong about everything, the contradictions everywhere are driving us all into collective insanity. If we don't manage to purge our media and governments from these vile peo…

> the neoliberals consistently predicted their immediate downfall that never came.

That doesn't seem correct. Wasn't the predication that once China started to become successful they'd open up and become more democratic?

Which clearly didn't happen, as per the outright slaughter of the Chinese university students who were protesting in 1989: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989_Tiananmen_Square_protests...

Re: Is this the end of the once-mighty GoPro?

#525

Post by lmm »

ieatcandlewax wrote: post #289
sgc wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am American who has lived in many countries around the world, and I think this is distinctly wrong and the source of many problems in the US. It would be more correct to say that the average American values outward displays of nationalism more, and has a more negative perception of those who do not appreciate or want to participate in those displays than people in most other countries. And yes, they conflate this w…

I disagree with this, I've noticed that the countries rising to prominence are quite nationalistic and the ones fading into obscurity are very post-national. > Europeans and people from other countries around the world are often fiercely in love with their countries. I would also disagree with this, I think it's profoundly uncool to love your country in many parts of Europe—think the UK and especially Germany. The Eu…

> I think it's profoundly uncool to love your country in many parts of Europe—think the UK and especially Germany.

I think that's because you're focusing on outward displays in exactly the way GP was talking about. It's profoundly uncool to be a flag-shagger, but Brits do very much love their country deep down, in the ways that really matter.

Re: Is this the end of the once-mighty GoPro?

#526

Post by TooSmugToFail »

Robotbeat wrote: post #89
sen wrote: post #13

I’ve owned a lot of Gopro cameras, having done video capture for a variety of motorsports, and they just got too expensive for what you get. You can be more expensive if you’re better, or you can be worse if you’re cheaper, but they’re both the downsides while living purely off brand recognition. They also blew up in a time where there wasn’t any real competition. Sony had action cameras but they were bulkier and exp…

GoPro is a US company designed in U.S. with manufacturing in Thailand, China, and Mexico. Insta360 is a Chinese company designed in Shenzhen and built there, too. People think this doesn’t matter, but GoPros are used all over in aerospace. If we replaced the brand with Insta360, that puts a big attack vector all over the place. A similar pattern happened with drones with DJI, intentionally killing all non-Chinese dro…

GoPro was outcompeted on the market. Simple as that.

They were made irrelevant by Insta360 and DJI, both with legitimately better products.

In my view, the only entity to blame for that is GoPro. And I believe that the shortfall was not only in matters of technology. My limited interactions with them painted a picture of an organisation with some super clever people, but paralysed by slow bureaucracy and high risk aversion.

By contrast, Insta360 was much more aggressive and enterprising, while DJI just did what DJI does: build amazing products.

Trying to blame this on some arcane Chinese plot to destroy the West is just a weak attempt to cope with reality: in China today there is simply much higher number of hard working, highly intelligent, highly educated people that are hungry for success then there are in the West.

One thing we forget is that the two great Chinese companies in this space (Insta and DJI) had first to compete against hundreds (thousands?) of other Chinese camera companies before they could come out on the top and compete globally.

They are not a product of a CCP plot. They are a result of a ruthlessly competitive and capable local ecosystem, itself a result of decades of consistent industrial and innovation policy.

Nothing is stopping us in the EU and US to do the same.

Re: Is this the end of the once-mighty GoPro?

#527

Post by inigyou »

t0mpr1c3 wrote: post #379
inigyou wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Equities aren't investment in industry except when there's an IPO or SPO. The rest of the time, it's zero-sum.

What you just said makes no sense. How can equities come into existence except via an IPO or similar mechanism? Equities are literally investments in business. Equity is a line in the balance sheet for every corporation.

Exactly. How can they come into existence except via an IPO or similar mechanism? At that moment, investment happens. The rest of the time, it does not. The stock market rising does not increase investment in industry. When you buy stocks at a stock exchange, you aren't investing in industry

Re: Is this the end of the once-mighty GoPro?

#528

Post by Robotbeat »

dismalaf wrote: post #270
sarchertech wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless Canadian prices are much much higher than US, the only Prusa that costs that much is a Core One L or a Prusa XL. Neither one of those are equivalent to a P1S. They’re 2 tiers above it. Equivalent Bambu printers sell for about the same price. I have printers from both companies. There are tradeoffs for each, but Prusa isn’t 4x more for an equivalent printer.

Core One+ is $1899 CAD, the MMU3 for the Core One+ is $579 CAD and shipping was quoted over $300 since they ship from Europe and not the US to Canada. Just put these into their shopping cart on their site, right now quoting $2887 (including shipping and duties). I did get a particularly good deal on the P1S combo apparently, the price on their website already higher than what I paid and it's significantly less in Can…

FWIW you can get a kit Core One+ for $999 USD in the US. I actually prefer to get the machine as a kit as assembly helps with understanding the workings of the machine for maintenance.

Re: Is this the end of the once-mighty GoPro?

#529

Post by fwn »

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #420
lostlogin wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What would the attack vector be? The cameras. But quite how, I don’t know.

Any backdoored camera with wireless networking can take pictures remotely.

Cloud risks are very true - for both GoPro and DJI.

About a year ago, I was looking for an action camera. I found a good DJI product, but then I learned that you have to link the camera to an app in order to use it. I am fundamentally opposed to that idea, so I looked up the equivalent GoPro camera. Turns out GoPro also requires you to activate the camera with a smartphone app.

I don't want to send my data to a company for something as trivial as an action cam. I was surprised to find that the US model had such an evil requirement, mirroring the Chinese model.

In the end, I bought the DJI action cam (cheaper, better) and activated it in a public location using a burner phone. You only need to use the app once to free the device and take it offline, after which you can delete the surveillance app. I have found no fingerprinting in the created media yet.

GoPro would have made an easy sale with me, if they had been more privacy/power aware.

Re: Is this the end of the once-mighty GoPro?

#530

Post by ImPostingOnHN »

johannes1234321 wrote: post #98
ImPostingOnHN wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you really think someone waving their country's flag is the same as waving a flag with the face of a dictator? Worldwide?

This thread was about omnipresent flag presence in factories and such. And the way it's done in America is different from many other countries.

It was actually about the occasional presence of a flag in a factory, particularly in photo ops.
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